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I am just wondering if anyone has seen any HE armies built with 2 large units of dangerous units, with a hero or 2 in each?

I am thinking about using 15-20 sword masters in one, and 15-20 Phoenix Guard in the other?

If I use Caradryan + a mage in one, and Korhil + a mage in the other, I am thinking that it will give me a very solid double unit, that can support one another by getting flank charges on a unit if it engages the other one on the front?

If I gave 1 of the Mages the Seerstaff, it would let me cast Unseen Lurker or the Wolf Hunts depending on which lore I went for?

It seems like it would work pretty well in theory, but I was hoping for any further support, or dire warnings if thats more common.

Don't think these are Deathstar units. As far as I understand the Deathstar concept, they would have to number 50+ to fit into that category.

The Wolf Hunts doesn't work on infantry units. Unseen Lurker casts on 11+, so I don't see a level 2 Wizard casting it reliably.

Otherwise seems like a solid idea though. I don't know if this would be stronger with two different units (in your example Swordmasters and Phoenix Guard) or the same units (for example 2x Swordmasters).

I don't know about the Mages though. They seem a bit fragile for hanging around in a close combat unit to me. Besides, it's not like they give you a very powerful Magic Phase. I'd just stick with a single Mage with 2 Dispel Scrolls.

The list would probably be something like this:

Combat Character
Combat Character
Scroll Caddy

2x 10 Archers
2x 25 Swordmasters (FC, Lion Standard / Standard of Balance)
2x Repeater Bolt Thrower
2x Great Eagle

One of the Swordmaster Champions could carry The Skeinsliver as well. My only concern for an army like this would be how to force the enemy to deal with your Swordmaster units.

It does work well with high elves. Death stars are generally either stubborn, unbreakable, or something else that lets them not care about flanks, ranks, etc. Flank 25 sword masters with anything decent and they go pop.

Also, high elf chars lack the damage output to go toe to toe with other such units.

The only army that can reliably do a dual deathstar approach is dark elfs with shades (but it is pretty brutal)

High elves really don't need to run the deathstar - they can do it with their characters. Run Teclis, 2 Lvl 2 mages and a Noble with the magic increasing banner and your set. Watch Teclis irresistable your army to death. I think Teclis can end up getting 12 casting dice a turn or something.
I've seen the multiple character in dragon prince unit with the D6 combat res, immune to terror, magic attacks and treat difficult terrain as open deathstar work pretty good as well. Sure doesn't have regen, but doesn't lose to too many things either.
You can at least try and get a ward save and stubborn too on the unit through magic.

How does one get the Battle Banner, the Banner of Ellyrion and the Lion Standard in one unit?, as far as I know, that is the only way to get +d6 CR, Immunity to terror AND moving through difficult terrain as if open all in one unit.

High elves don't really have a suitable death star unit. They're one of the few lists that encourage a balanced build (besides the 2 dragons at 2k build).

I think 10-15 Dragon princes are candidates for deathstarring.

I think 10-15 Dragon princes are candidates for deathstarring.

I don't, Sword Master or Phoenix Guard would more be.

Sword masters are way too fragile for their points. A reasonable amount of shooting or a decent magic phase makes them crumble in a turn or two. Dragon princes are good but they're way too expensive. Sometimes the unit may just walk through your opponent's army. If your opponent knows how to deal with them they'll get wrecked, though. Just putting a couple of tooled out characters in an expensive unit does not a deathstar make. The unit needs to be almost impossible to break (ie immune to psych and stubborn at the very least) and it needs to be able to do some serious damage in CC whether you get the charge or not. High elves just don't have anything that fits the bill. You're better off with a balanced list every time.

Couldn't Shield of Saphery and Courage of Aenerion turn any unit into one of those?

Heck Phoenix Guard have the 4+ ward already. That's fairly close to death star quality right there.

Spellbound wrote:Couldn't Shield of Saphery and Courage of Aenerion turn any unit into one of those?

Heck Phoenix Guard have the 4+ ward already. That's fairly close to death star quality right there.

The problem is that Sword Masters have a 6 WS, and 2 attacks a piece. While the PG have a WS 5, and 1 attack a piece.
Your right those two spells could make a big difference but considering how many times I have been able to get those spells off lately (I believe Twice in the last 8 games, I fielded Teclis in. It could be more or less, probably less :( ), I am unwilling to depend on them.

Your deathstar HE units is:

8 Dragon princes, full command, war banner
BSB, mtd, dragon armour, shield, lance, battle banner
Prince, Star lance, vambraces of defence, mtd, shield

Deploy 6 wide.

I've seen this unit win by 9 vs a 'big 5' combat res T3, AS4+ unit of infantry. Simply devestating.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Your deathstar HE units is:

8 Dragon princes, full command, war banner
BSB, mtd, dragon armour, shield, lance, battle banner
Prince, Star lance, vambraces of defence, mtd, shield

Deploy 6 wide.

I've seen this unit win by 9 vs a 'big 5' combat res T3, AS4+ unit of infantry. Simply devestating.

I would add another Dragon Prince for a bit of rank bonus its 'only' 30pts more.
Add Amulet of Light to the champion so everyone has a magic weapon and give the Prince some spell defences or take it with the unit standard bearer..

Personally, I feel a HE deathstar would be best accomplished with a big block of White Lions with Caradryan, Korhil and a BSB with the Battle Banner.

Something like:

BSB - Da, shield, GW, Battle Banner
Korhil
Caradryan
30ish White Lions with full Command and Warbanner + Amulet of Light.

Stubborn, Woodsmen (woods are not difficult terrain), Cause Fear, MR3, 6+d6 CR.
One character w/ 3 S6 attacks with Killing Blow who is immune to poison,
One character w/ 3 S4 flaming attacks and 4+ Ward
One character just dishing out 3 S6 attacks.
All attacks count as magical with the AoL.

On another site, Ogrestronghold.com, We were discussing the merits of a 60 strong white lion deathstar with the banner that makes them stubborn, or MR 2( i forget, do they have stubborn normally). And they had Caradryan.

The unit is good if there is woods but is countered easily enough with ogres.

The end consensus was that 3 units of 4 ogre ironguts could cause an average of 17 unsaved wounds in first round( 1 S5, and 8 S4 impact hits, and 24 wounds from the GWs(out of 36) would get past the AS on the WL) this is with a few Lions striking back and killing 2 IGs after Impact hits(which go before ASF)

Why the hell would you let ogres get impact hits?

I've only ever once had them get an impact charge off and that was after failed animosity... There is a reason as to why every enemy unit runs towards ogres when they are between 6 and 12 inches away.

elves only march/charge 8" ogres march and charge 12" you need some clever postioning to deny us BC


Ok, Ok its not that hard to stop BC, but a 60 man(elf) unit is very difficult to maneuver



PS; typing on a Wii is tough, sorry for my spelling

Um, elves march/charge 10".

I thought and have heard elves move 4" and charge 8"

either way, still slower