Orks and the Late Game

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**QuietOrkmi**

After playing a few games at my LFGS, I hit something that strangely works... Thinking for the late game rather that the Mid game...I play a foot sloggin army that hits the late game over a battle wagon list...With the late game in mind I keep 2 units of Flash Gits in reserve (yes Flash Gits, more in that later)....

My initial thoughts was to blow up transports like Rhinos and light vehicles with Lootas along with wearing my opponent down with 3 mobz of 30 orks slugga. The 2 units of trukk boyz are there to be shot at, killed and to act as an initial threat. The unit of bikers are there to tie up super units with their high toughness and wear them down, my Warboss on a bike normally attacks isolated units with-out a powerfist by himself as he is T6 and is wounded on 6s so it is not uncommon for him to beat a lone TAC squad in CC...

Now for the Flashgitz and the late game... with all the units wearing down enemy units down by the late game T4-6 the flashgitz are essentially Nobz that I can justify not getting into CC every turn... The Snazzgunz work great to wipe small units of infantry (By the late game there is only small units), No one is immune to the Snazzguns with their long range (24" assault), the high Strength wounds infantry on 3s and their potential low AP (1/3 chance to get Ap 2, 1/2 for Ap 3) gets past most MEQS... In the final turn, I can assault units with my "Armored Nobz" (Flash Gitz come with 'eavy armor)

I also noticed something with Flash Gitz... placed in the right place, you could essentially pre-measure against every unit for assaults and shooting for other units as with avoiding getting assaulted by being just 13" from a non-fleet unit...

**starbomber109**

I think a better use for the gitz would be dominating the center of the board. You have to shoot them with missiles to get rid of them, a single tac squad won't be able to wipe them out without backup.

Anyways, most foot-sloggin' lists tend to dominate in the late game (because that's when they make contact with the enemy) but that's a neat use for them too. I'd rather have them wound on 2's, but that's me.

**MorbidlyObeseMonkey**

Couldn't you do the exact same thing without the flash gitz? Boyz with shootas for example will kill small squads a lot better than flash gitz will, plus they're scoring.

**QuietOrkmi**

I have no slots left... It is funny how the most valuable part of flash gitz is that they have Nob stats with better shootas and they do not take a troop slot (I have non left) or an Elite slot (only one left and having three units of lootas leaves me too open to get wasted by things tough enough to deep strike in and assault them)

**Gorkamorka**

MorbidlyObeseMonkey wrote:Couldn't you do the exact same thing without the flash gitz? Boyz with shootas for example will kill small squads a lot better than flash gitz will, plus they're scoring.

Or with lootas. You lose the chance at ap3- and nob stats, but you gain 2' range, 1 str, double the models (and shots, on average), and some points.

edit: ninja'd. Meh, nobs without klaws vs 2x the boys isn't that great. I suppose snazzguns are assault though.
I just can't get past the cost vs return of the gits... they cost as much as a Kan apiece, with upgrades.

**starbomber109**

QuietOrkmi wrote:I have no slots left... It is funny how the most valuable part of flash gitz is that they have Nob stats with better shootas and they do not take a troop slot (I have non left) or an Elite slot (only one left and having three units of lootas leaves me too open to get wasted by things tough enough to deep strike in and assault them)

Behold, the true ork player lol.

Orks tend to have troops heavy armies, thats why we have things like stormboyz, who in addition to moving 13-18" per turn, are still boyz

Not to mention the one Nobz group and the one Deff Dread troops most ork armies take, that leaves four slots open for boyz...and boyz need to be in the ork army. This...is actually probably WHY we have more nobz in heavy support.

**QuietOrkmi**

Saw my friend play his 2000 Goff list which was scaled down from 2500.... I think it opened my eyes a bit...

He had models of different speeds...

6"-18" Slugga
13"-27" Battle Wagon (Gazz)
13"-30" Stormboyz
6"- deep strike Warp Head/Burna Boyz

He was playing against shooting Eldar, and had his fastest models in the front with the slower models in the back. His important Battlewagon got bright-lanced and immobilized first turn... With nothing in reserve the Eldar player could "Snipe" out units that were a threat... I am beginning to wonder if he had enough threat saturation.

This begs the question in my mind, If he had the battle wagon in reserve, and rushed foreword with infantry, would they get close enough to become a threat over a battlewagon coming off the board... In addition, with enemy models so close, would they have time to shoot at the battle wagon, thus giving the Meganobz and Gazz a chance to "Sneak" onto the board and hit some models that were tied up/ bogged down by the horde of boyz.

What are your guys' thoughts on my revelation.

**Jihallah**

it does sound like he didn't have enough threat saturation indeed. I dunno about holding the wagon in reserve. If it came on turn 2 the boyz would be only 12" max down the board =\

I love playing against orks when you get a chance to snipe out the threats

one thing I've found useful in team games/used against me is using the size of your army. If i have a unit of stormboyz within 18" of 3 squads, who are they going to charge? If i had a slugga squad thats roughly 12" from 2 of those squads, and some deffkoptas zippin' around nearby too, this gives me plenty of options to deal with the 3 squads threatening me- also gives my opponent plenty of choices on what to try and stop from charging his mans

I wrote that off no sleep at the end of a graveyard shift, so i hope that makes sense to everyone

**EzeKK**

The problem with holding your strong units on the board is just that, your strong units are not on the board!

While keeping things in reserve works for some things I just don't think keeping units like Nobz and the interesting choice of Flashgitz and ESPECIALLY Ghazzy in reserve while the rest of your army is on the board is a good move.

Having those big scary units on the board is how you keep your boyz from not getting blown away. You are literally letting your enemy shoot at what he needs to. Without the threat of your scary units your opponent can saturate fire into your boyz and effectively cripple you to a point where Ghazz and friends coming in later (who says they will be able to charge also) won't do jack.

You need to present targets that are still Deadly, the more the better really! It's the same logic to when Eldar players take Wraithlords if they take an Avatar. They don't just present you one target, they present you many targets that are simultaneously deadly. But if you were to take the Wraithlords out of the Equasion, you just have on thing that you know you can focus and get rid of easily.

I hope your Flashgitz are in a transport because they won't really be able to do much if they come in T4-5 because they sound like they are footsogging it!

My main point is don't hold your power units in reserve unless you have a VERY good reason (ex. IG hold their Executioner in reserve not to be blown away by Broadsides or something akin to that).

**QuietOrkmi**

hmmm.... Interesting... come to think of it, It really just could have been his list as he mentioned that, when he scaled it down, it seems he took out what made the list good....

As for reserving units, do you think my flash Git Idea would work better against an assault army like blood angels?

What do you guys think about reserving relatively fragile units (that 10 man grot squad for capturing objectives) to protect them from just giving your opponent kill points?

**Kroot Loops**

QuietOrkmi wrote:Saw my friend play his 2000 Goff list which was scaled down from 2500.... I think it opened my eyes a bit...

He had models of different speeds...

6"-18" Slugga
13"-27" Battle Wagon (Gazz)
13"-30" Stormboyz
6"- deep strike Warp Head/Burna Boyz

He was playing against shooting Eldar, and had his fastest models in the front with the slower models in the back. His important Battlewagon got bright-lanced and immobilized first turn... With nothing in reserve the Eldar player could "Snipe" out units that were a threat... I am beginning to wonder if he had enough threat saturation.

This begs the question in my mind, If he had the battle wagon in reserve, and rushed foreword with infantry, would they get close enough to become a threat over a battlewagon coming off the board... In addition, with enemy models so close, would they have time to shoot at the battle wagon, thus giving the Meganobz and Gazz a chance to "Sneak" onto the board and hit some models that were tied up/ bogged down by the horde of boyz.

What are your guys' thoughts on my revelation.

Unfortunately it at least appears to me on paper that a 'competitive' Ork army has to have a Big Mek with a KFF for those 4+ cover saves on vehicles (and 5+ on close enough Boyz). Which is really a shame, because I think the Big Mek with a SAG and the weird boy are really fun, unique units that you probably won't get to play too much if you want the strongest list.

QuietOrkmi wrote:hmmm.... Interesting... come to think of it, It really just could have been his list as he mentioned that, when he scaled it down, it seems he took out what made the list good....

As for reserving units, do you think my flash Git Idea would work better against an assault army like blood angels?

What do you guys think about reserving relatively fragile units (that 10 man grot squad for capturing objectives) to protect them from just giving your opponent kill points?

Reserving is always a gamble, particularly if the unit doesn't have the ability to deepstrike or outflank to get them to where the fighting is for coming in late. If your heavy hitters don't come in till round 4 or 5, they may be too far away from the enemy to have an impact before the game ends.

In a reversed situation; If you have your objective close enough to your board edge, reserving a weak unit like Grots to come on and occupy it can work. Unfortunately you have little control over when they come, they could stay safe in reserve until turn 5, or they could pop out on turn 2.