Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Generally, when a magical banner says "all models in the unit gain frenzy", etc. etc. it applies to characters that join the unit.

What about marks of chaos? If a unit with the mark of tzeentch has a character join it, and the unit gets the 4+ ward save buff from a warshrine, does the character get a 3+?


The icon gives the unit the mark. But marks go by a model by model basis, meaning that characters that join technically don't have it. Do they benefit "anyway"?

While it doesn't specifically say that marks don't apply to characters joining a unit, the WoC book DOES say that characters can't have more than one mark. It seems obvious to me, then, that any non-tzeentch marked character wouldn't get the 3+ ward save from the warshrine, but would an unmarked character get it, as a unit buff? Or not even then, as THAT model doesn't have the mark of Tzeentch?

In the case of warshrine granting a 4+ ward on a tzeench unit, the unit would add a +1 to the ward save as normal, and any non-tzeench models in the unit just get 4+, as normal. As a rule when it comes to special magical effects, not attacks, and such you should count the character and unit as being separate entities, unless there is a rule that says otherwise.

In the case of frenzy, the banner of rage states that "the unit carrying this banner" is subject to frenzy and can never lose it. If a character joins the unit he wont get frenzy, as stated in the BRB and if he already has it then he wont be benefiting from the never lose it aspect either. You could give this banner to the BSB but then it would only affect him, he being the 'unit with the banner.'
Psychology is usually not transferred from character to unit, or the other way round, to be sure just check the BRB. That goes for DE Sea Serpent banner too.
Incidentally the Royal Standard of Strigos in the VC army states that "all models" in the unit benefit from hatred so that would affect any character joining it.

Iiiiiiinteresting. So I CAN have a character on a steed of Slaanesh join a unit with the banner of rage and not have to go charging out at everything. And on the flipside, he won't get +1 attack, which I'm ok with.

It's a bit confusing when it says "the unit". The question started pertaining to the marks - a player at 'Ard Boyz had a chosen deathstar with several nurgle and slaanesh characters with 3+ ward saves due to the mark - which I was iffy on after the tournament, and that led me to look at banners too.

Now I know that a character without frenzy joining a frenzy unit [say for example witch elves] isn't frenzied - but what can I use to backup the claim that a unit with a frenzy banner doesn't give frenzy to attached characters? Am I looking for "All Models in the unit"? Is that consistent wording throughout all army books?

Actually it is the other way around - any characters joined to the unit WILL gain frenxy as it specifies the UNIT gain, and a character joined to the unit is part of that unit in all respects.

If you argue otherwise then the character can be shot at, as they are a seperate unit. Now of course that isn't true....

So unfortunatley high M frenzied character CAN and often WILL charge out the unit as they will have charge reach. Put the Slaanesh character on the chaos steed instead perhaps

Ok, so in the case of a banner yes, but in the case of the Mark of Khorne, no. Right?

And non-Tzeentch characters will only receive a 4+ ward save from the shrine buff, even if the unit has the Mark of Tzeentch.

MoK - no, as it only applies to those models with the Mark.

Same for MoT