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Hey All,

This is my first stab at a Codex SM List, I'm trying to work out what I'd like to play before I buy anything. The army list is geared towards being competitive but not completely ruthless. To wit, It has a few nonstandard (I think?) units that I think are fun, as well as the competitive 'core'. Anyways, here goes.

HQ:
Chief Librarian Tigurius [230]
(his special rule should make the army much more stable (uncertain of how much more I could say, with respect to GW's IP)

Elite:
Venerable Dreadnought; Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta, CCW [235]
-Drop Pod, Locator Beacon
I've never seen one of these not perform for its points value

Troops:
Tactical Squad (10); Melta, PC, Sgt- Chainsword/Power Weapon[240]
-Drop Pod; Locator Beacon
Fielded in this way partially as a distraction, and partially to fit another drop-pod into the list. Sort of an experiment, but it also grants me flexibility in which drop pods I want to come down

Tactical Squad (5); Sgt- Chainsword/Power Weapon [185]
-Razorback; TLLC, Dozer Blade
Tigurius is deployed here with his 'crew. I wanted the 5 marines/him for shelter and the additional troop choice, but it also lets me field another lascannon without placing vulnerable infantry on the field

Scout Squad (5); Missile Launcher, Sniper Rifles [148]
-Sgt Telion
I'm pretty sure that scouts are mediocre, but I have a fondness for them. The unit is fairly cheap, and will hopefully have some multi-tasking (MC's, light vehicle hunting, etc.)

Fast:
5 Vanguard Veterans; Jump Packs, 4 PW/Chainsword, Sgt; Thunderhammer [250]
5 Vanguard Veterans; Jump Packs, 4 PW/Chainsword, Sgt; Thunderhammer [250]
My Hammers, Heroic intervention!

Heavy:
Vindicator; Dozer Blade [120]
Vindicator; Dozer Blade [120]
Heavy choices to start in reserve, or just apply pressure so that my opponent can't pick my army apart as easily if things go wrong. Additionally they are multi-use, if a little inaccurate...

Devastator Squad (5); 2LC, 1MM [220]
-Drop Pod, Locator Beacon
An experiment, I'm hoping to drop them somewhere midfield to act as bait, or vehicle control (I'm concerned about the amount of anti-armor in the list). Additionally, I think they could be a fun unit to field, despite being sub-optimal

Total: 1998 Points

The general (and supposedly clever) idea is to abuse drop pod/locator beacon and veteran vanguard rules. I would appreciate any advice people want to throw at me, especially since I haven't been able to test this army at all.

Thanks for your time,
Cyr'Cova

First of all, what's with the chainsword/power weapons? If you like the idea of a screaming bald maniac waving a chainsaw in one hand and a lightsaber in the other (and who wouldn't?) you can still model them as such with a bolt pistol in a holster. They can then shoot things before assaulting. Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick and am misinterpreting your writing, clarification?

Regarding your troops, I think starting with vehicles on the table in this kind of list is a mistake. Scouts w/Telion, by all means keep them around, fun unit. The razorback with combat squad, I would take a drop pod (and if you make some of the changes suggested below, you might be able to fit in the rest of the tac squad. It's always worth it if possible, special/heavy weapons are really necessary)

I like the idea of vindicators from reserve in a drop pod list, they're great. You can take out his anti-tank units before your ordnance comes on.

Vanguard veterans, I think they're a bit iffy. I'm wary of any unit that is T4, 3+Sv but costs triple what a marine does. Currently your models average at 50 points each. How about some terminators instead? Any variant would be better than those things (sorry to sound negative) because those units (250 pts, 5 models) will at best land, intervene heroically, chew up one unit, which is unlikely to cost 250 points, probably losing a model or two in the process. Then they die immediately as soon as the enemy gets a turn to shoot them. So they're only really good against opponents that they can kill without taking real losses, but who it will take them more than a single turn to kill. You see what I mean?

I would drop the vanguard vets. Complete niche unit. I understand they interest you for that reason, but think of the children! An assault squad (10 men) with 2 flamers and a power fist, now THAT I can get down with. At least take off one unit of the vets.

Devestators seem a bit weird - as you say, it's an experiment. But I believe their job can be done better by dreadnoughts or sternguard with combi-meltas. If you are going to take them I presume they're not dropping in a distant corner of the field, so multimeltas are better than lascannons as well as far cheaper. Lascannons in dev squads are a huge rip-off in my view.

Summary: I think drop-pod lists (with those awesome vindicators) are a great idea, but they'd be better supported by a single assault squad (or by deep striking assault terminators) than by 2 overpriced vanguard squads. Also, Ven. dreadnought and devestators are overpriced. I would look into ordinary dreadnoughts and sternguard to fulfill this role for less points.

Tactics seem really good, but I would have everything but the vindicators (and I suppose the scouts) in drop pods. Organise your drop pod assault so your troops come in and take down his tank hunters first turn, then your dread(s, if you add more) can come in alongside vindicators and run amok.

Good luck with the army! Sorry if I was harsh to the vanguard vets, but I really do not consider them competitive.

I appreciate your advice, a few things.. chainsword/power weapon really should be bolt pistol, your right. I just tend to forget the pistol in its meekness... from there, two other things.

The razorback squad -> drop pod.

The razorback with combat squad, I would take a drop pod (and if you make some of the changes suggested below, you might be able to fit in the rest of the tac squad. It's always worth it if possible, special/heavy weapons are really necessary)

It seems to me like in this case, the razorback does provide a lascannon, and while it is likely to die, I'm mostly interested in my lascannons on the first two turns anyways... the razorback squad is a little more mobile (barring libby gating) and protected than the squad on foot, wielding lascannon. What am I missing here that makes drop podding a good idea for that squad?


The appeal of the vanguard veterans is that they do hit on the turn they come in, between beacons/tigurius. I know that they are glass-hammer, but are the terminators so much more survivable that they can eat a turn of shooting and still be better than the vets? for instance, are 6 DS'ing termies more survivable than 5 intervening vets? I feel like shooting averages 2 terminators/round in many of my games, unless I'm pulling out both units at the same time. Maybe I'm just wrong here.

My other problem with terminators is that they are slow, I did consider 2 units of assault marines, each with a HQ selection to "beef" them up, would that be better in your mind as well?

Vindicators will probably start in reserve, I think they are a pretty interesting way to give a bit more punch to the list, hopefully I can manage scatter/placement for them, but I'm optimistic.

Thanks for the advice,
Cyr'Cova

I would consider putting at least 3 full squads of troops in a list of this size and as for the dreadnought, I've never had much success fielding just one, plus the venerable re-roll isn't really worth it in my opinion (the extra point of armor on an ironclad seems to work better and is cheaper if you're set on running a single dread). Vanguard are too expensive for what you get...terms or sternguard are better. Also, you would probably get more bang for your buck if you replaced the devastators with more heavies or another dread.