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I finally got the first wave of Imperial Guard minis in the mail, and now that I've begun the painting I figure it's time to start looking at what I'll actually be putting on the field. I'd love any input you can give me. Bear in mind that I don't really have a local gaming group, so I don't get a chance to "try it out on the table" in casual play before committing. Some choices I made for fluff reasons (I can't bear the thought of a Guard army taking the field without a single commissar), others are probably just bad calls. I appreciate the help once again, Dakka!

HQ

Company Command Squad – 107
+Bolt pistol
+Vox-caster
+Master of Ordnance
+Lascannon

Lord Commissar – 75
+Melta bombs

Troops

Veteran Squad – 100
+ Meltagun x3

Veteran Squad – 100
+ Meltagun x3

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad – 105
+Flamer x4
+Chimera w/Heavy Flamer (replaces multi-laser)

Infantry Squad – 70
+Missile Launcher
+Vox-caster

Infantry Squad – 70
+Missile Launcher
+Vox-caster

Infantry Squad – 70
+Missile Launcher
+Vox-caster

Fast Attack

Hellhound – 135
+Smoke Launchers

Vendetta – 130

Vendetta – 130

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Demolisher - 165

Leman Russ Executioner – 230
+Plasma cannons

1487

Shane wrote:I finally got the first wave of Imperial Guard minis in the mail, and now that I've begun the painting I figure it's time to start looking at what I'll actually be putting on the field. I'd love any input you can give me. Bear in mind that I don't really have a local gaming group, so I don't get a chance to "try it out on the table" in casual play before committing. Some choices I made for fluff reasons (I can't bear the thought of a Guard army taking the field without a single commissar), others are probably just bad calls. I appreciate the help once again, Dakka!

Know what you want, so you can just spend money on the units you intend to use .

Shane wrote:HQ

Company Command Squad – 107
+Bolt pistol
+Vox-caster
+Master of Ordnance
+Lascannon

Lord Commissar – 75
+Melta bombs

At 1500 MoO is going to be iffy. 1/3 of the time he will scatter 7" (minus BS if you have LoS), and 2/3 of the time it will be 10.5". If you fight an opponent that you can miss by 10" and it won't matter because you will hit something else, it will be worth it. Other than that, its an ok squad.

Shane wrote:Troops

Veteran Squad – 100
+ Meltagun x3

Veteran Squad – 100
+ Meltagun x3

Meltagun Vets are a popular choice. I assume you are putting them into the Vendettas, they will work well... or they will never make it to their target. That's how that works.

Shane wrote:Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad – 105
+Flamer x4
+Chimera w/Heavy Flamer (replaces multi-laser)

I hope it works well for you. I feel there are better ways to achieve what you are trying to do with your PCS, however. Hellhounds are far more successful at this, IMO.

Shane wrote:Infantry Squad – 70
+Missile Launcher
+Vox-caster

Infantry Squad – 70
+Missile Launcher
+Vox-caster

Infantry Squad – 70
+Missile Launcher
+Vox-caster

Pretty straight forward. Most people are of the opinion that Missle Lauchers are too expensive for what they do. You can fire S8 AP3, but for 5 points more you can get a Las, or get 2 shots at S7 (which is better than 1 at S8) for 5 points less, but for 10 points less you can get a Mortar which does the same blast as the ML and Pins... for less. Specialize the squads, even if you dropped one ML for a Mortar, you could get 2 Las in the other 2 squads. Beyond that, you are basically rooting the squad to one spot. Heavy Weapons Squads could give you the Heavy Weapons you want, without having to buy a whole squad... letting you take your infantry elsewhere. Also, BS3 sucks really bad. You should always make sure you can get BiD orders on your Las and ACs so you can make sure your shots count.

Shane wrote:Fast Attack

Hellhound – 135
+Smoke Launchers

I find dozers more useful than Smoke, so you can drive over cover with no problem. But smoke definately has its advantages. I feel that if you set up right, you can get in range in turn 1, and then you will want to shoot... not hide.

Shane wrote:Vendetta – 130

Vendetta – 130

One of hte best buys in the army.

Shane wrote:Heavy Support

Leman Russ Demolisher - 165

Leman Russ Executioner – 230
+Plasma cannons

The second tank is a bit of a point sink with the PCs, but that's your choice. You will just have to protect that tank well.

The list seems really solid, IMO.

The only thing that stands out to me is that you can turn the missile launchers into autocannons (normally I'm a fan of lascannons but you already have that covered with the vendettas). Drop two voxes, you can combine those squads and thus save points.

On your PCS flamers (I love this squad so much), you may want to go hull heavy flamer and turret multilaser, just because S6 is so much more useful than AP4 against most armies. You might even get lucky and take out a rhino.

Lt Lathrop wrote:
At 1500 MoO is going to be iffy. 1/3 of the time he will scatter 7" (minus BS if you have LoS), and 2/3 of the time it will be 10.5". If you fight an opponent that you can miss by 10" and it won't matter because you will hit something else, it will be worth it. Other than that, its an ok squad.

I sort of had a feeling that was going to be the case. Maybe I'll think about the Astropath or the Officer of the Fleet instead. Thanks for the advice, there.

Lt Lathrop wrote:Meltagun Vets are a popular choice. I assume you are putting them into the Vendettas, they will work well... or they will never make it to their target. That's how that works.

I am.

Lt Lathrop wrote:I hope it works well for you. I feel there are better ways to achieve what you are trying to do with your PCS, however. Hellhounds are far more successful at this, IMO.

Do you think a second Hellhound is the way to go? I'd need to drop a Vendetta for that, right? I really liked the idea of the Vendettas, but if it plays out that the Hellhound is more worthwhile I may go that route.

Lt Lathrop wrote:Pretty straight forward. Most people are of the opinion that Missle Lauchers are too expensive for what they do. You can fire S8 AP3, but for 5 points more you can get a Las, or get 2 shots at S7 (which is better than 1 at S8) for 5 points less, but for 10 points less you can get a Mortar which does the same blast as the ML and Pins... for less. Specialize the squads, even if you dropped one ML for a Mortar, you could get 2 Las in the other 2 squads. Beyond that, you are basically rooting the squad to one spot. Heavy Weapons Squads could give you the Heavy Weapons you want, without having to buy a whole squad... letting you take your infantry elsewhere. Also, BS3 sucks really bad. You should always make sure you can get BiD orders on your Las and ACs so you can make sure your shots count.

Would it be better to drop to two infantry squads (maybe in Chimeras, for taking objectives) and add a Heavy Weapon Squad? I liked the versatility of the missile launcher, getting to shoot it at either vehicles or infantry. The reason I didn't care for Heavy Weapon Squads is that I'd have to fire them all at the same target, so I felt like sometimes I'd be wasting a bit of the firepower. Of course, at BS 3, that's probably not going to be the case very often. Good point.

Lt Lathrop wrote:I find dozers more useful than Smoke, so you can drive over cover with no problem. But smoke definitely has its advantages. I feel that if you set up right, you can get in range in turn 1, and then you will want to shoot... not hide.

I was already torn on this. I'll definitely take your advice there.

Lt Lathrop wrote:The second tank is a bit of a point sink with the PCs, but that's your choice. You will just have to protect that tank well.

There are a couple of other places I could spend the points, for sure. One I was considering was giving one of the Vet squads Grenadiers (mostly for fluff reasons). Is that worthwhile, do you suppose?

makr wrote:On your PCS flamers (I love this squad so much), you may want to go hull heavy flamer and turret multilaser, just because S6 is so much more useful than AP4 against most armies. You might even get lucky and take out a rhino.

Sound reasoning there. I think I'll take this piece of advice to heart, too.

I'm going to say that I really like the MoO. Remember, you can twin-link with Bring it Down - chances are you won't hit the target vehicle, but you have a pretty decent chance of scattering onto an enemy squad. At 30 points, it's an easy buy because you're almost guaranteed to make those points back.

I'm going to say that you should stick with the Executioner. 230 isn't too expensive to demolish TEQs. Even hordes won't appreciate 5 blasts.

Suggestion: take an ordinary commissar attached to one of the infantry squads, instead of a commissar lord. Cheaper, the most important morale effect (stubborn and re-rolls) is still there. Spend the points saved on some special weapons for the infantry squads, whom I suggest you field as one blob (in which case, one vox-caster can service the whole group)

Shane wrote:

Lt Lathrop wrote:I hope it works well for you. I feel there are better ways to achieve what you are trying to do with your PCS, however. Hellhounds are far more successful at this, IMO.

Do you think a second Hellhound is the way to go? I'd need to drop a Vendetta for that, right? I really liked the idea of the Vendettas, but if it plays out that the Hellhound is more worthwhile I may go that route.

No, well... you have to do something with the PCS squad. If that is what you want, do it. I just think there are better ways to do what you are trying to do here.

Shane wrote:

Lt Lathrop wrote:Pretty straight forward. Most people are of the opinion that Missle Lauchers are too expensive for what they do. You can fire S8 AP3, but for 5 points more you can get a Las, or get 2 shots at S7 (which is better than 1 at S8) for 5 points less, but for 10 points less you can get a Mortar which does the same blast as the ML and Pins... for less. Specialize the squads, even if you dropped one ML for a Mortar, you could get 2 Las in the other 2 squads. Beyond that, you are basically rooting the squad to one spot. Heavy Weapons Squads could give you the Heavy Weapons you want, without having to buy a whole squad... letting you take your infantry elsewhere. Also, BS3 sucks really bad. You should always make sure you can get BiD orders on your Las and ACs so you can make sure your shots count.

Would it be better to drop to two infantry squads (maybe in Chimeras, for taking objectives) and add a Heavy Weapon Squad? I liked the versatility of the missile launcher, getting to shoot it at either vehicles or infantry. The reason I didn't care for Heavy Weapon Squads is that I'd have to fire them all at the same target, so I felt like sometimes I'd be wasting a bit of the firepower. Of course, at BS 3, that's probably not going to be the case very often. Good point.

It depends on how you wanna play it. If you want your Heavy Weapons Team to have 12 wounds and BS4 keep them in the Vets. If you want a cheap option for large numbers of heavy weapons, with BS3 but no spare wounds... then take teams. In both cases if you are firing against vehicles you can BiD giving you twin linked. Whether or not you want Heavy Weapon Teams in squads, or a whole Heavy Weapons Squad... is up to you.

The Missle Laucher is crap. It is one shot at S8. At BS3 you have a 50% chance to hit, and on a roll of a 6+ you can glance a 14 armor vehicle. Then you need to get a 3+ on that vehicle to do anything useful... and you already have a -1 modifier. If you are going to fire against heavy infantry... then take a HB or an AC with two shots or 3 shots... which helps you get over your crap BS. Against most infantry S5 is plenty, against heavy infantry S7 is more than enough. Also with S7 you can hit light armor vehicles AV10 - AV12 with regular success. Considering that the small blast of the Missle Launcher is going to get about 3 hits... then you need to wound and they need to fail saves. That has about the same effectiveness of 3 shots at S5 or 2 shots at S7 where you have better AP and better chance to wound. Considering that almost all the other options do the same job better... you would think why take it? Considering that all the other options are cheaper... it would be foolish to take it. Go with HBs or ACs... Mortars if you need/want pinning... Las if you need to hit AV14, or want to instant death or deny saves with S9 AP2 (which is actually pretty fun watching multiple wound monsters get instant deathed, especially since us humans almost never get to see anything with multiple wounds).

Shane wrote:

Lt Lathrop wrote:The second tank is a bit of a point sink with the PCs, but that's your choice. You will just have to protect that tank well.

There are a couple of other places I could spend the points, for sure. One I was considering was giving one of the Vet squads Grenadiers (mostly for fluff reasons). Is that worthwhile, do you suppose?

Russ and a hull Las are generally pretty scary to most things. If you wanted to drop the PCs maybe bring a Las on the tanks? Grenadiers are nice, 4+ save is pretty fantastic. Guard usually take advantage of cover saves pretty well. A general piece of cover is 5+ or 4+... so if you give yourself forward sentries, then you have a 4+ or a 3+ save. That's better than grenadiers... Also this isn't just any old save... it's cover. No amount of AP will ever rob you of your cover save. AP2? Pff... I got me a shrub to stand behind. (Although beware of templates and barrage weapons.) Genadiers however is great for CC where you don't get cover saves. Since your Vets are going for Melta range, it is a very big possibility that you will end up in melee, or won't have acess to cover to shoot from. So in this case, genadiers might be exactly what you are looking for.

Shane wrote:

makr wrote:On your PCS flamers (I love this squad so much), you may want to go hull heavy flamer and turret multilaser, just because S6 is so much more useful than AP4 against most armies. You might even get lucky and take out a rhino.

Sound reasoning there. I think I'll take this piece of advice to heart, too.

Multi-laser is definately a great weapon.

makr wrote:I'm going to say that I really like the MoO. Remember, you can twin-link with Bring it Down - chances are you won't hit the target vehicle, but you have a pretty decent chance of scattering onto an enemy squad. At 30 points, it's an easy buy because you're almost guaranteed to make those points back.

I have to agree that a nice hit with the MoO could easilly make back your 30pts... but it is more of a question... is there 30pts you can spend somewhere else that can make those points back... better?

First off, I want to thank everyone for their help with this project. It's going to be nice to be able to paint and model the stuff I've bought with a definite direction in mind. Here's another version of the list I've made, taking a lot of the advice into account. I swapped the second Vendetta for a Hellhound in this version, dropped the Demolisher to a regular Russ (since I found out that I'd have to buy a whole separate model for the demolisher, and I already own a Russ), and mobbed up the platoon to cut down on some redundant expenses. Since I have the second Hellhound, it let me drop the flamers out of the PCS (which will now hang out and give orders too), and fill out some extra heavy and special weapons here and there. Now the Vets have the Chimera instead of the PCS, and I think I like the overall look of the list better. Let me know what you think!

HQ

Company Command Squad – 107
+Bolt pistol
+Vox-caster
+Master of Ordnance
+Lascannon

Elites

Troops

Veteran Squad – 132
+ Meltagun x3
+ Grenadiers
+ Bolt pistol

Veteran Squad – 190
+Grenade Launcher x3
+Heavy Bolter
+Forward Sentries
+Chimera w/Heavy Flamer (replaces heavy bolter)
+Dozer blade

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad – 45
+Autocannon
+Vox-caster

Infantry Squad – 105
+Commissar
+Autocannon
+Grenade launcher

Infantry Squad – 80
+Lascannon
+Grenade Launcher

Infantry Squad – 80
+Lascannon
+Grenade launcher
+Vox-caster

Fast Attack

Hellhound – 130

Hellhound – 140
+Dozer Blade

Vendetta – 130

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Battle Tank – 165
+Lascannon

Leman Russ Executioner – 230
+Plasma cannons

1499

HQ looks good.

I assume those meltavets will be riding the Vendetta, right? Consider dropping carapace armor, they're already suicidal and that extra bit of armor won't help them survive the fire they'll be taking.

Why grenade launchers on the other veterans? Get them some meltaguns as well.

Infantry squads seem nice, but if you're blobbing them together (which I assume you are from the commisar and the vox) it's just nice to give them all the same heavy weapon. Either autocannons or lascannons would be nice.

Fast attack is fine.

I have a bit of issue with your first Russ, however - what do you want it to shoot at? The turret is geared at MEQs, and the hull weapon at light-anti tank. Replace this with something else: maybe a pair of Hydras, or find a demolisher turret off of Ebay for $3. A manticore would be nice too.

makr wrote:HQ looks good.

I assume those meltavets will be riding the Vendetta, right? Consider dropping carapace armor, they're already suicidal and that extra bit of armor won't help them survive the fire they'll be taking.

Why grenade launchers on the other veterans? Get them some meltaguns as well.

Infantry squads seem nice, but if you're blobbing them together (which I assume you are from the commisar and the vox) it's just nice to give them all the same heavy weapon. Either autocannons or lascannons would be nice.

Fast attack is fine.

I have a bit of issue with your first Russ, however - what do you want it to shoot at? The turret is geared at MEQs, and the hull weapon at light-anti tank. Replace this with something else: maybe a pair of Hydras, or find a demolisher turret off of Ebay for $3. A manticore would be nice too.

I know, there are so many things I'd like to find some more points for. Meltaguns in the second vet squad would be great, I'd love to upgrade the autocannon in the infantry blob to another lascannon (actually, swapping the lascannon in the CCS for the autocannon in the platoon would fix this issue), I'd like a dozer blade on that second Hellhound. I'd love to field a Demolisher instead of that second Russ (the lascannon is on there to hold the points, so that when I get a Demolisher I can swap it in even-steven).

I know I could drop Grenadiers, but I like it for silly fluff reasons. Should I possibly drop the plasma sponsons on the Executioner?