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Assault Marines: What am I doing wrong?

I have 2 [10 man] Dark Angle Assault Squads, both identical.
•Veteran Sergeant [Power Fist, Plasma Pistol]
•2 Plasma Pistols
One is lead by a Company Master [Paired Lighting Claws, Plasma Pistol, Jump Pack and Melta Bombs]
The Other Interrogator Chaplin: [Plasma Pistol, Jump Pack, Melta-Bombs

The last game I broke the Company Master’s Squad in to Combat Squads and made sure he had all the Plasma Pistols
I left the Interrogator Chaplin as a full squad.
Both of them were put in reserve, to counter his Vanguard Unit in reserves.

All of mine showed up on turn 3.
-I took the Company Masters Combat Squad and jumped his [5 Man] Multi-Melta Devastators. The 2nd Combat Squad went after a 5 man TAC Squad
-The Interrogator Chaplin ended up going after a Venerable Dreadnaught to prevent it from Assaulting one of my Devastator Squads.

Here is what went wrong.
1] It took 2 Turns for the Company Master’s Combat Squad to finish off the DEV Squad [Partially so-so rolls and his incredible save rolls I lost one in the Assault.
2] The 5 Man TAC squad tore apart my Combat Squad and I got to fire and then assault it.
3] The Dred would not Die. I hit it with 15+ Plasma Weapons, ore than half hitting the rear. 4-6 Power Fist Attacks, Two Melta-Bombs and at least 15 Krak Grenades. His Chaplin with his Sternguard got into it on the 2nd turn with another [5 Man] TAC the next turn just wipes out my Assault Squad including the Interrogator Chaplin [mostly thanks to the Fearless loose the Combat Wounds]

Now am I just suffering from my sub-par dice or am I tactically doing something wrong with them,

Your dice officially hate you. Throw them into a bin and buy some new ones.

A few items:

1. Your dice do seem to hate you.

2. You are putting way to many points into Assault Marines, Plasma Pistols are never worth it.

3. You are playing Dark Angels. It's time to join the protest and play out of Codex SM until GW gets the DA right.

Mahu wrote:A few items:

1. Your dice do seem to hate you.

2. You are putting way to many points into Assault Marines, Plasma Pistols are never worth it.

3. You are playing Dark Angels. It's time to join the protest and play out of Codex SM until GW gets the DA right.

1] I was thinking that, either that or they were getting back at my for playing my Space Puppies
2] I am one of those that Plasma Weapons work in general for me.
3] The way I have restructured my Chapeter, that Company is being restructured to a Shrike Lead Company, but I am keeping my Deathwing for my 1st Compant

1. Buy new dice

2. It's not that they are not effective, they would be a great upgrade at 5 points a piece, it's just they are overtly expensive, especially with DA. You are better off putting a Combi-weapon (melta) on an attached character.

3. You have that option. Deathwing really can only be played out of Codex DA, but they are not the best option. You can do a Deathwing themed list with Codex SM by taking 30 terminators that combat squad into 6 units. That's a minimum of 1200 points, you loose fearless and scoring Terminators but gain better assault terminators and better shooting. I would do it in 2000 points.

I like all of the Chapters, so rather than create a bunch of Chapters I am going to theme each Company based on the different Chapters, Special Characters and Codex’s. I do not plan on mixing companies on the field unless it is set up like the LFGS’s Gods of War Tournament or maybe Apocalypse.

Company [Rules] Special Character
1st The Tiger Claws [Dark Angles] Belile/Chaplin [TDA]
2nd Reclusiam [Grey Knights] ??/??
3rd Ecclesiastic [Black Templers] ??/??
4th Tactical [Dark Angles] Azrael/Ezekiel
5th Tactical [Space Marines] Kayvaan Shrike/Chaplin [JP]
6th Tactical [Space Marines] Pedro Kantor/Librarian
7th Purgatory [Space Marines] Calgar/Vulcan He’stan
8th Assault [Blood Angles] ??/??
9th Support [Space Marines] Antaro Chronus/MotF
10th Scout [Space Marines] Cato Sicatius/Kor’sarro Khan





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mahu wrote:It's not that they are not effective, they would be a great upgrade at 5 points a piece, it's just they are overtly expensive, especially with DA. You are better off putting a Combi-weapon (melta) on an attached character.

Is the Combi-Melta worth the Lost Attack?

Assault marines are rarely worth it even in codex: SM but playing DA really hurts you even more due to their increased cost and no real bonus in effectiveness

Honestly there is a reason why you really never see assault marines.. Terminators tend to kill things better

I already have two Terminator Armies, a Deathwing and a Loganwing.

I am going to keep trying my Assault Marines, but with some changes.
Shrike with a 10 man Assault Squad.
•Sergeant with Power Fist, Plasma Pistol
•2x Flamer, CCW
•7x Bolt Pistol, CCW

Chaplin [Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs, Jump Pack]
•Sergeant with Power Fist, Plasma Pistol
•2x Flamer, CCW
•7x Bolt Pistol, CCW

I use two flamers and a Thunderhammer on my assault squad, and almost ALWAYS back them up with a Jump Chaplain.

The plasma pistols aren't worth it, you can't afford to loose 20+ point models to Get's Hot. Stick with doing what they do - assault. Matter of fact, I buy those flamers just as insurance, most of the time, I skip Shooting entirely with the unit. The Flamers are there in case I want to give some Eldar Guardians the What-For.

Dice are fickle, my friend. Just hang in there, and you'll see.

I have a buddy that plays Blood Angels. When he rolls his saves and comes up with 1's, he'll pick up the 1's, get on his "dad-face" and very sternly say "Now you just SIT over there and THINK about what you've done!" and deposit them on the end table in time-out for the rest of the game.

If I trade out the Power Fist and Pistol on the Sergeant it will be to replace them with paired lighting claws and Melta-Bombs, but hat is a Fluff thing [and I like Lighting Claws]

My Battle Prayer is in my sig

Can you still put a pair of LC's on an Assault Seargent? I thought they took that option out.

It is still avalible, its the TAC Sarg that can no longer take them. I fact you can trade you Chain Sword for the Pair

You can trade in your Chainsword for a Pair of Lightning Claws and trade in your Bolt Pistol for another Pair! 4 Lightning Claws!

Erm...but really, Assault Marines are generally looked down on, but mine always make up their points, so it seems to be a matter of preference.

Also, dice are mean. ):

I also thinking of puting together the Shrike Squad [Vanguard Paired Lighting Claws and Jump Packs] for larger games.
That 805 points
Has anyone done this in 5th and is it worth it?

My brother uses assault squads on a fairly often bases. And I have to say, his usually does rather well. At the very least he will get his points back most of the time. I think its dice, and how you play them. He uses cover ALOT until he can get the perfect time to pounce.
But if you lost that many assault marines to what you mentioned, get dice badly because they obviously want your soul.
In the incredibly short time I played SM I used an assault squad that had 2 flamers and the sgt had lightning claws I believe, and they did outstanding in that game.

Anpu42 wrote:I also thinking of puting together the Shrike Squad [Vanguard Paired Lighting Claws and Jump Packs] for larger games.
That 805 points
Has anyone done this in 5th and is it worth it?

wast of points as they lose the assault when you deepstrike rule.

The problem is that you haven't converted to Chaos

=


plenty of slaanesh daemonettes to go around

The core problem, as a couple of posters have said, is that Assault Marines just aren't very... good.

There are three important things you need to be a serious assault unit:

- The ability to ignore armor saves (either via Power Weapons or Rending)

- An initiative higher than 4
-OR-
- A good invulnerable save

You can make up for some of the above with sheer quantity of quality attacks and other features (e.g., Berzerkers are good assaulters with their WS5 S5 I5 A4 (total) on the charge *and* their scoring status). Assault marines only have a tiny bit of the first.

With mobility and not being a serious assault unit, Assault Marines are really left to killing units weak to assault -- and in the same force org slot, Scout Bikers do their job better.

for codex SM, assault marines do very well if acting as a bodyguard for a jump librarian. then they gain the ability to ignore armor saves (the majority of them with the ap3 flamer) as well as the ability to lower the enemies invulnerable saves. (null zone)

this combined with 2 flamer templates and a decent number of attacks in hand to hand means they are a force to be reckoned with.

Assault marines are essentially just regular marines with a different form of mobility and an extra attack. The most successful uses I've seen for them are to run them extremely cheap (5 guys, powerweapon) and use them to bail out squads stuck in combat or wipe out a weak surviving unit near your lines after other units have reduced them or to run a larger squad with 2 flamers and a LC sergeant whose job is sneak up under cover to weak enemy infantry and wipe them off objectives/counter-assault reduced enemies. Putting them toe to toe with elite assault units is a bad comparison because they are much closer to tactical marines than any dedicated assault unit out there.

That said, the OP just had some horrible luck.

I use them in smaller battles - otherwise you start seeing too many things that can wipe the unit in a turn of shooting. Chaplain leading 5 jump marines, dual LC for sgt.

PanzerLeader - regular assault marines do not have the extra attack. They are just like tactical marines, but have jump pack, bolt pistol, and chainsword which grants them the +1 A. Vanguard vets have base 2 attacks, 3 after weapon bonus.

I know they aren't seen much anymore, but I used these guys for Kroot Barbecue most of the time. Two Str4/AP5 cover ignoring templates make those annoying Kroot pillboxes (hiding in woods) shrivel up and die VERY fast. This is about the only time I ever shoot with them, to be honest, but it's worth every bit when it happens. Tau used to be my regular opponent.

Wow it really does sound like you need new dice. Just a few questions though did you roll 2D6 on the meltabombs for armor penetration on the dread? Second i didnt think assaulting a dread from the rear allowed you to attack on that because it is assumed it is always facing its opponents. If this is not true then please correct me.

Actually I hit it with 11 Plasma Cannons that a few drifted behind it. Then just before the assault 4 plasma pistols from the rear. As for the Melta bombs, I would penetrate real good, roll 5s and 6s on the damage roll, and then the Venerable Dred would make me re-roll and here would come the 1s and 2s.

It would not be so bad, but we were using the same dice.

As far as my dice rolling, my sig says it all
OH GOD, LET ME ROLL AVERAGE!

Alright i got ya i forgot about the venerable dread and the reroll. Yes your guys are not kitted out bad but as said before assault marines for DA are way overpriced. Thats what was wrong though never use your opponents dice or let them use yours unless you have extra sets.

Is the Combi-Melta worth the Lost Attack?

If you've got a Power Fist on the guy, then you already lost that attack. Might as well have a Melta weapon... I wouldn't necessarily spend the points on it, like to keep my Assault Squads cheap, but it's not a terrible idea.

Def don't like a Plas Pistol on this guy. He's a very expensive model to lose to a Plasma problem.

There are three important things you need to be a serious assault unit

None of which do Boyz have, and they're still a great assault unit.

People are really underrating Assault Marines. I'm not saying they're great or anything, but they get cheaper and cheaper with every Codex. They're a solid unit, you just have to have a reason for them in your list.

The big thing that Codex Space marine did was nerf Assault Marines.


The biggest disadvantage is that they do not have access to antitank.
Assault Marines are pretty much a countercharge unit. They work well when pair with heavy hitters such as terms to counter the numbers disadvantage.

GeneralRetreat wrote:PanzerLeader - regular assault marines do not have the extra attack. They are just like tactical marines, but have jump pack, bolt pistol, and chainsword which grants them the +1 A. Vanguard vets have base 2 attacks, 3 after weapon bonus.

I know they aren't seen much anymore, but I used these guys for Kroot Barbecue most of the time. Two Str4/AP5 cover ignoring templates make those annoying Kroot pillboxes (hiding in woods) shrivel up and die VERY fast. This is about the only time I ever shoot with them, to be honest, but it's worth every bit when it happens. Tau used to be my regular opponent.

I'm counting the extra attack from the BP/CCW as the +1 A. Not saying they have 2 base.

Unfortunately assault Marines are nothing special when it comes to close combat. I run my BA with Dante & Corbulo, so even with preferred enemy and furious charge unfortunately they still don't do all that well. Sure they should do okay versus units like guardsmen, fire warriors and guardians but then again what doesn't versus these weak units? I would swap them out for terminators or invest some more points and take vanguard.

G

How do you use Vanguard effectively, Green Blow Fly? I can't seem to figure out how to make that unit work well, except in a Drop Pod army.