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I'm running 2 x 10 Vets with 3 meltas and demolitions in Valkyries and 2x10 vets with 3 plasma, las cannon in Chimeras. Should I give either of them shotguns or just stick with las guns? Is assaulting after shooting or shooting 24 with your flashlight when not moving more useful?

I have rarely wanted to assault with vets other then the first turn scout move, assault a vehicle with melta bombs but then las guns are worthless against vehicles so I don't bother shooting them.

Avariel pointed out that assaulting is useful against Tau but how often does that come up?

I haven't really wanted to shoot 24 much either since if you move, you can't shoot 24 and if I'm sitting still I'm shooting 3 plasmas assuming no overheat deaths and a las cannon. Ok I get to shoot 1 las gun but I'm probably shooting a Rhino or something hard like terminators or marines where a single las gun shot don't matter much.

If you're going mech with meltas or flamers, take shotguns so you don't have to stand still for the squad to put out their full firepower.

Cheese Elemental wrote:If you're going mech with meltas or flamers, take shotguns so you don't have to stand still for the squad to put out their full firepower.

...You do know that lasguns can fire two shots on the move, right?

Generally, I feel that lasguns are the superior option. IG vets almost never instigate assaults, and the lasgun's longer range is somewhat useful, as is the ability to occasionally throw down extra shots with FRF!SRF!

Shotguns take a little more modelling/conversion effort, but I feel they are superior to lasguns. If you have mechanized veterans, you will be unlikely to use your orders on them for FRFSRF or stand still with them for 6 long range lasgun shots. Being able to shoot and charge is almost certainly better than that, as well it opens up options. If your veterans have the demolitions upgrade, then they should take it so they can assault a lone tactical marine and hit a vehicle with meltabombs.

Shotguns for Valkyrie Vets (More likely to assault, likely out of Command Squad Range) Las guns for Chimera Vets (less likely to assault, advances with the command squad in Chimera so inside command squad range for orders)

It's a tough call with the non-assault aspect.

I generally like to have shotguns on melta/flamer vets and lasguns on plasmavets. I also agree that Valkyrie mounted vets benefit more from shotguns than the Chimera lads.

I do often assault with my veterans in situations that call for it. It's a tough call because you're often hedging your bets on whether the unit you're going to pop out of that transport with your meltas will finish you off in their assault phase and allow you to shoot them in your next shooting phase. If you assault them, you're almost guaranteeing that fact, but you also may be killed in your assault phase and leave them free to do their own thing... with an extra D6 movement to boot.

With Termies I find it's always fun to charge them with guardsmen and watch him roll a 1 or two on the few bayonet wounds you managed to cause (after they get eaten by the I4 termies, of course...)

DoW

I say shotguns with the meltaguns and lasguns with the plasma, because the ranges and types equal up. Having the longer range of the lasgun isn't important when you want to move up to fire meltas, and if you're that close, there will be times when you want to charge. Sometimes you will be hoping to be stuck in until their round, sometimes you just want to kill as many as possible, which can be quite a few when you hit it with a demo, 3 meltas and shotguns then charge. A charge could finish a unit off after that, maybe it's last turn or a scoring or contesting unit...
With the plasma, lasguns would make sure everyone else gets to shoot when it does, and since you can't assault if you use it, shotguns won't matter. I think the occasions when you did charge with this setup will be rare enough, and you will make up the 10 shots the shotguns would provide with the increased range of the lasguns.

AirCav:
Meltas, Shotguns, Power Fist
Plasma, Lasguns

MechVet:
Meltas, Lasguns
Plasma, Lasguns

Simple.

Simple, but why? Why not shotguns with the meltas, even for mech?

Because they would all have assault weapons for those few times you want a follow up charge when disembarking from an unmoved vehicle...

They may have melta bombs or somthing to attach to a vehicle...
Or the player is banking on weight of dice to bring down the remaining members of a unit they just shot.

/Shrug.

I wouldn't ever use shotguns, even if the squad is meant to get all close and personal. With meltas you'll mostly attack vehicles, which won't be worried at any rate about the shotguns pointing at them. As mentioned, with any longrange firepower it does not match well.
But even with three to four flamers I find it hard to justify.
First I find it a waste of potential to give veterans flamers, as bf4 can be used so much better and PHQs benefit far more from flamers.
Second, imagine almost any given enemy being hit by these flamers. Either they will have high losses and maybe break, so you don't need to charge anyway. Or they will take bloody revenge on you for burning their former comrades in CC because practically everyone and their little sister is faster, tougher, better in this regard... So I might just as well save some time and leave them with lasguns.
Now if there was a chance to get I4... *wishful thinking*

While meltas are vehicle crushers fo sho, I have alot of antivehicle firepower anyways, and by the time the meltas are close enough the enemy vehicles have often been dealt with, or it's assault troops coming out of transports into my lines. The strong wound dice and AP makes me want to shoot at infantry as well, especially non-hoard.

I'm building a chimera-mounted demo squad with an engineer theme. Shotguns, 3x MG, PP for the Sgt, and a LC. The LC, PP and demos can be taken off as needed for smaller games as this squad is quite bloated, but pretty deadly for an IG squad. The BS4 LC protected by the chimera is nice in my gunline if movement is not needed, but if I get within 6" and decide I don't want to charge, that's 6 shots usually wounding on 2 with no armour save. That's after I throw the big demo in your face and blast you with the chimera's hull HF!

Here's where the shotguns come in. If I don't want to charge, it won't have made any difference had I had lasguns. But if there is anything left alive, I may want to charge it, vehicle or infantry- the sgt will always have meltabombs, and sometimes the squad - either to kill the target or get stuck in combat so as not to be devastated by return fire. Rare are the games when this squad will spend large amounts of time between 12" and 24" from the enemy to make use of 5 flashlight shots.

I'm even thinking of adding a commissar with PF and a priest with eviscerator for games over 2000pts!

A bit lengthy, sorry. Main point: shotguns for MG's and Demo Crews!

Thanks for the replies. Shotguns for melta vets and las guns for plasma makes sense. Guess I will have to pick up some shotgun bits then.

Edorian wrote:Now if there was a chance to get I4... *wishful thinking*

Yeah, that would take some kind of tactical geniu.... CREEEEEED!

Nah...that would be Iron Hand's Furious Charge aura...

Or, Creed's "For Cadia!" order.

Checkmate.

Creed - the butt of all jokes.
Iron Hand - Man of "Steel" (close enough )

I found Creed too expensive for the 1750-1850 range as you want a platoon with power weapons to use this For Cadia order and something to outflank like banewolves or demolishers to use his tactical genius outflank to maximize his usage and he costs a bunch of points himself.

Well, airborne units=shotties footslogging=lazies mech(non-airborne)=shotties...

Or do what I do; Put both in a squad and just let people know which you are using for the particular game you are playing.

Example, I am doing an Air Cav Catachan army, but I want the flexibility to use the men I have for either a Air Cav Veteran force or swap out some melta gunners for blob Straken force.

So in my units I have 3 Meltagunners, 3 Shotgun toting guys, three lasgun toting guys and the sergeant. So when I play, before the game starts I let people know, these guys all have shotguns or these guys are all armed with Lasguns.

When time and money permit, I may try to get enough men to go either way, but until then this is the way I have to do it, cause my kids have to eat =D

Kirika wrote:Thanks for the replies. Shotguns for melta vets and las guns for plasma makes sense. Guess I will have to pick up some shotgun bits then.

Do what I did - file lasguns down till they look like shotguns - just 'round' them, shorten them, take the long clip off, and take the stock off to if you using detached lasguns...

DogOfWar wrote:It's a tough call with the non-assault aspect.

I generally like to have shotguns on melta/flamer vets and lasguns on plasmavets. I also agree that Valkyrie mounted vets benefit more from shotguns than the Chimera lads.

I do often assault with my veterans in situations that call for it. It's a tough call because you're often hedging your bets on whether the unit you're going to pop out of that transport with your meltas will finish you off in their assault phase and allow you to shoot them in your next shooting phase. If you assault them, you're almost guaranteeing that fact, but you also may be killed in your assault phase and leave them free to do their own thing... with an extra D6 movement to boot.

With Termies I find it's always fun to charge them with guardsmen and watch him roll a 1 or two on the few bayonet wounds you managed to cause (after they get eaten by the I4 termies, of course...)

I agree with lasguns for plasma, shirtguns for melta/flamers. It is always going to be situational, but i can think of plenty of scenarios vs orkses for example where i would much rather charging than being charge