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HQ


Company Command Squad w/ Chimera 3 x flamers - chimera w/ heavy flamer & heavy flamer 120

Troops

Veterans 3 x meltaguns 100
Veterans 3 x meltaguns 100
Veterans w/ Chimera 3 x meltaguns 155
Veterans w/ Chimera 3 x flamers 140
Veterans w/ Chimera 3 x plasma guns 170

Fast Attack

1 x Hellhound & 1 x Devil Dog 2 x smoke launchers & 1 x multimelta 275
1 x Vendetta Gunship 130
1 x Vendetta Gunship 130

Heavy Support

1 x Leman Russ Demolisher lascannon 180
1 x Leman Russ Demolisher lascannon 180
1 x Colossus 140

total 1820


The list firstly has 180 points left. So I'm not sure what to stick in there.

I feel the units are more streamlined now. The CCS doesn't last 5 minutes so I thought not point investing points into them, kept the 3 flamers and all flamer chimera as five templates rock, if not three is good too.

The two units with the meltaguns go in the vendettas. Both units can tank hunt and if I remember correctly they can jump out of the vendetta due to the chut rule or something.

Other flamer vet unit supports the CCS plasma gun unit follows too.

I'm using the "melta & burn" combo of a devil dog and hellhound you suggested on your blog some time ago. Will work nicely against transports.

Two russes go for the hard stuff, not sure on the lascannons and the colossus bombs things.

All units have support and come in pairs. Colossus might be on its tod, but I don't think two are needed and it will be hidden away. If it wrecks 150 points of troops I'm happy - something I think is doo-able.

Your thoughts and constructive and indepth feedback would be appreciated on what list is the best, and which one to change, if any.

Thanks!

Mercer - your IG army is centred on veterans in chimeras? I'm shocked, I was sure you were going to create an army with lots of ogryns, backed up by rough riders!

As for what you've got so far, mostly very hard choices. I would never use 2 heavy flamers on a chimera - think about it, your opponents are never going to move in front of your chimera in a tear-drop shape, whenever you flame something you have to move, ergo whenever you flame something you may only fire one weapon. And I think that the CCS isn't well served by all the flamers - spend the extra points to get 3 meltas and a heavy flamer in the squad. Likewise, I'd spend the points to up-gun your flamer-armed veteran squad.

For your remaining 180 points, in addition to the change I just recommended, I see two options. Get another unit of veterans (good, boring) or add another artillery piece to your battery (risky, cool). I don't see the point of adding any elite units, or another HQ. Use any spare points to get demolitions upgrades on the vendetta-carried units.

Hope that helps - I look forward to a battle report between your IG and luke's IG. Vehicular vandalism vs mechanised mayhem!

Jasper man, how's it in china?

Ogryns and rough riders? lol. Why would you think that for bud?

Fair point about the heavy flamer turret. Can only move 6" and still be out of range most the time in order to fire. If I keep still and fire both then more than likely front models will be removed, so second heavy flamer won't do a lot. I'll keep the mounted heavy flamer, but do away with the turret - glad its not glued on!

I really do like the all flamer CCS and they do ok, I think a heavy flamer wouldn't go a-miss though.

The flamer veteran squad can work well too dropping three flamer templates on a unit.

I wouldn't go another troop choice as got enough and boring as you said. I don't think the colossus needs a friend either. I'm not keen on any elites or any other HQs in the guard codex so thats it for me.

I've given the demo upgrade a thought before. But is 10 melta bombs over kill?

Hopefully will do matey

Things're alright, thanks. Only had one game of war since I got here, with borrowed eldar against orks, and that was 6 weeks ago maybe. (I did win though)

Re Ogryns and rough riders, I just meant you seem quite keen on researching your armies before buying models, and usually have a rather tightly-built army list before taking the field - hence I'm unshocked to see you've found what's probably the best way to use IG, and are eschewing weird badly-priced units in favour of no-frills mechanised firepower. Bloody internet isn't that good at conveying irony, sorry.

I see what you mean about the flamer units, but they're only really optimum against light infantry, I think it's worth the points to buy one HF for the squad, and then 2-3 meltaguns or such. Not a big difference though, you're not short on meltas.

I think demo is good for the demo charge, and on airborne squads for the following trick (I didn't think of this, I read it on this site): if you get first turn, start your planes at the edge of your deployment zone. Scout move them 24". Your opponent needs to have deployed his hard targets in the very far corners to stop you moving 12", dropping into melta/demo range and blasting him. OR, if he was silly enough to put his vehicles only about 36" away from the vendettas, you scout 24", get the men out, move/shoot/assault normally. So you can get 10 meltabomb autohits on his stationary vehicle (or vehicles, this would be a good time to multi-charge). If it were me, I'd buy demolitions.

For filling out the list, I think you need another unit, and I believe the competitive candidates are:
another vet squad
another vendetta/valk.
another LR
another artillery piece
a manticore.
All of these but the top one would need you to squadron up or change your organisation. You could get a CCS, but honestly another vet squad would always be better than that option.

If I may, an observation and then some comments to follow.....

mercer wrote:Company Command Squad w/ Chimera 3 x flamers - chimera w/ heavy flamer & heavy flamer 120

Why in the name of the Emperor do you not have 4 flamers in this unit? Even throwing a HF in would be better than leaving one chuck with just his trusty ol' lasgun. Especially because you have extra points that are just sittin unused.

Now, on to the comments......
I generally run 2 CCS units in my list and I do the following setups:
CCS w/flamers x 4 in a Chimera w/HF turret and HF hull and extra armor
CCS w/plasma guns x4 in a Chimera w/HB turret and HB hull and extra armor

The flamer CCS (and I occasionally will run 3 flamers and a HF but that is just for fun) is able to get in close and flame the heck outta stuff. As are the 4 flamer templates from the CCS inside. You say, but Bart you can't shoot both HFs on the Chimers if you move....to which I say sure, but if I get a weapon destroyed I'm still laying flames down with the other, plus the turret HF gives me 360 degree flame capability while the HF in the hull limits me to the front....and sometimes when you have an immoiblized Chimera, having that HF turret has come in nicely.

My second Chimera sits back, hopefully in cover if available, and hits targets farther out with the HBs. Then when enemy gets into range, or I see targets that i wanna move vloser to to establish plasma range, then I open up with those. I sometimes run 3 plasma and a medic, or 4 plasma and give them carqapce instead...still havent decided which way to go for sure yet on that.

Also I love the demolitions on my vets with melta in my vendettas/valkyries not only for the flexibility, but also the firepower...this is guard we are talking about, you can never have overkill when it comes to weaponry....Take the 10 meltabombs and charge/multicharge....your opponent will be left in a crying, blubbering, cursing ball on the gaming floor.

I also have been playing around lately with shotguns on the vets instead of lasguns....Love that assault 2 for the added flexibility it gives them, and it has saved my bacon in objective based games twice already.

Hope these comments help, even if you say Bart you're full of fecal compounds and I'm staying with exactly what I have. Variety is the spice of life and your playstyle may not be the same as mine. As always with the IG more than any other unit YMMV.

~Bart

P.S. Something else to consider...scrap the Colossus and instead go with a plain LR with HB hull and a Punisher with HB sponsons...That is a squadron made for extreme anti-horde duty. I run that little squadron and also I put Pask in the Punisher. And before you say it I know it is alot of points. But in one battle against the bugs Pask took down 2 carnifexes with his crack-shot anti-MC mojo and I have made swiss cheese of many ork hordes and even against marines it does OK (the old rule of force a player to make enough saving throws and he will eventually fail several has held true). not only that, but from a psycological standpoint when you opponent hears that you will be rolling 29 dice at BS4 against them with that little gem, they tend to zero in on it. With AV 14 front it does well and also if he is concentrating on the Punisher, your vendetta and valkyrie birds carrying the vet teams have less flak being thrown against them and so they get to the target/objective relatively unmolested....Then as it dawns on your opponent that he shoulda went after them instead, it is already too late.

I love to hear anyone, especially a SM player, say "I can't believe I lost to the Imperial Guard."

Again, just random thoughts from my games and experiences. Once again YMMV.

Barthonis wrote:If I may, an observation and then some comments to follow.....

mercer wrote:Company Command Squad w/ Chimera 3 x flamers - chimera w/ heavy flamer & heavy flamer 120

Why in the name of the Emperor do you not have 4 flamers in this unit? Even throwing a HF in would be better than leaving one chuck with just his trusty ol' lasgun. Especially because you have extra points that are just sittin unused.

Now, on to the comments......
I generally run 2 CCS units in my list and I do the following setups:
CCS w/flamers x 4 in a Chimera w/HF turret and HF hull and extra armor
CCS w/plasma guns x4 in a Chimera w/HB turret and HB hull and extra armor

The flamer CCS (and I occasionally will run 3 flamers and a HF but that is just for fun) is able to get in close and flame the heck outta stuff. As are the 4 flamer templates from the CCS inside. You say, but Bart you can't shoot both HFs on the Chimers if you move....to which I say sure, but if I get a weapon destroyed I'm still laying flames down with the other, plus the turret HF gives me 360 degree flame capability while the HF in the hull limits me to the front....and sometimes when you have an immoiblized Chimera, having that HF turret has come in nicely.

My second Chimera sits back, hopefully in cover if available, and hits targets farther out with the HBs. Then when enemy gets into range, or I see targets that i wanna move vloser to to establish plasma range, then I open up with those. I sometimes run 3 plasma and a medic, or 4 plasma and give them carqapce instead...still havent decided which way to go for sure yet on that.

Also I love the demolitions on my vets with melta in my vendettas/valkyries not only for the flexibility, but also the firepower...this is guard we are talking about, you can never have overkill when it comes to weaponry....Take the 10 meltabombs and charge/multicharge....your opponent will be left in a crying, blubbering, cursing ball on the gaming floor.

I also have been playing around lately with shotguns on the vets instead of lasguns....Love that assault 2 for the added flexibility it gives them, and it has saved my bacon in objective based games twice already.

Hope these comments help, even if you say Bart you're full of fecal compounds and I'm staying with exactly what I have. Variety is the spice of life and your playstyle may not be the same as mine. As always with the IG more than any other unit YMMV.

~Bart

P.S. Something else to consider...scrap the Colossus and instead go with a plain LR with HB hull and a Punisher with HB sponsons...That is a squadron made for extreme anti-horde duty. I run that little squadron and also I put Pask in the Punisher. And before you say it I know it is alot of points. But in one battle against the bugs Pask took down 2 carnifexes with his crack-shot anti-MC mojo and I have made swiss cheese of many ork hordes and even against marines it does OK (the old rule of force a player to make enough saving throws and he will eventually fail several has held true). not only that, but from a psycological standpoint when you opponent hears that you will be rolling 29 dice at BS4 against them with that little gem, they tend to zero in on it. With AV 14 front it does well and also if he is concentrating on the Punisher, your vendetta and valkyrie birds carrying the vet teams have less flak being thrown against them and so they get to the target/objective relatively unmolested....Then as it dawns on your opponent that he shoulda went after them instead, it is already too late.

I love to hear anyone, especially a SM player, say "I can't believe I lost to the Imperial Guard."

Again, just random thoughts from my games and experiences. Once again YMMV.

That unit was copied from my old list which didn't have the points to drop another flamer in, but now I do and its something I'll be doing

I'm dropping the heavy flamer turret. Obivous reason is cannot fire both if moved, but who is going to stand in front of me and let me fire two heavy flamer templates. I'm gonna pop the turret onto a old hellhound giving me a all plastic hellhound . Immobilised vehicles with heavy flamers are easily avoidable, having a flamer template and immoblised vehicle isn't a good thing.

I have given shotguns some thought and pondering about demos still too on the two melta units in the valkyries.

I really do like the colossus, nasty bit of kit for units in cover. Though I do also like the tag team of a punisher and executioner. Serious anti infantry and monstrous creature. I won't take pask, but the two tank combo sounds good, and they're tough tanks to boot so I'm not worried about squadron rules.

Thanks for the comment

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:Things're alright, thanks. Only had one game of war since I got here, with borrowed eldar against orks, and that was 6 weeks ago maybe. (I did win though)

Re Ogryns and rough riders, I just meant you seem quite keen on researching your armies before buying models, and usually have a rather tightly-built army list before taking the field - hence I'm unshocked to see you've found what's probably the best way to use IG, and are eschewing weird badly-priced units in favour of no-frills mechanised firepower. Bloody internet isn't that good at conveying irony, sorry.

I see what you mean about the flamer units, but they're only really optimum against light infantry, I think it's worth the points to buy one HF for the squad, and then 2-3 meltaguns or such. Not a big difference though, you're not short on meltas.

I think demo is good for the demo charge, and on airborne squads for the following trick (I didn't think of this, I read it on this site): if you get first turn, start your planes at the edge of your deployment zone. Scout move them 24". Your opponent needs to have deployed his hard targets in the very far corners to stop you moving 12", dropping into melta/demo range and blasting him. OR, if he was silly enough to put his vehicles only about 36" away from the vendettas, you scout 24", get the men out, move/shoot/assault normally. So you can get 10 meltabomb autohits on his stationary vehicle (or vehicles, this would be a good time to multi-charge). If it were me, I'd buy demolitions.

For filling out the list, I think you need another unit, and I believe the competitive candidates are:
another vet squad
another vendetta/valk.
another LR
another artillery piece
a manticore.
All of these but the top one would need you to squadron up or change your organisation. You could get a CCS, but honestly another vet squad would always be better than that option.

You all settled now then?

Aye mate, interwebz fails on irony. I thought it was a bit of har har he he joke lol.

Against guard, eldar and orks flamers rule. Guard and eldar are weaker so wounding on 3's and orks have a 6+ save, so no save for them . I didn't rate flamers before but I used them in a game against eldar and worked well and Luke used two flamer units to burn my ork units badly.

You cannot assault after bailing out a valkyrie, you can still bail out when moving 24" but need to take a dangerous terrain test and also use the scatter dice too. Though I'm thinking of changing these to vanilla valkyries as the gunships won't be very good for what I want.

I do like the idea of a punisher and executioner so I might try that and throw a heavy flamer onto the CCS and demo's on the two meltagun units in valkyries.

Regarding the valkyrie thing, I meant this:

You start by scout moving 24" toward the enemy.

If you are <12" from enemy vehicles, you can disembark (before the valk moves) which allows you to move 6" and assault 6".

If you are >12" from enemy vehicles, you can move the valk 12" and disembark to fire.

Either way it's a devestating first turn strike, if you can multi-charge several vehicles the first option seems better.

And yeah, I'm volunteering as an english language teacher while I'm here, and frantically looking for a paid job somewhere far away from my family! So fairly settled.

Getcha. Good idea that.

I think Luke mentioned you was looking at a job in Africa? Are you a country-whore?

I think this could be the final:

HQ

Company Command Squad w/ Chimera 3 x flamers & 1 x heavy flamer - chimera w/ heavy flamer

Troops

Veterans 3 x meltaguns & demolitions
Veterans 3 x meltaguns & demolitions
Veterans w/ Chimera 3 x meltaguns
Veterans w/ Chimera 3 x flamers
Veterans w/ Chimera 3 x plasma guns

Fast Attack

1 x Hellhound & 1 x Devil Dog 2 x smoke launchers & 1 x multimelta
1 x Valkyrie
1 x Valkyrie

Heavy Support

1 x Leman Russ Demolisher heavy flamer
1 x Leman Russ Demolisher heavy flamer
1 x Leman Russ Punisher & 1 x Executioner each with heavy flamer

This final list comes in at 2030. Did you mean LRBT instead of leman russ demolishers?

mercer wrote:Company Command Squad w/ Chimera 3 x flamers - chimera w/ heavy flamer & heavy flamer 120

Veterans 3 x meltaguns 100
Veterans 3 x meltaguns 100
Veterans w/ Chimera 3 x meltaguns 155
Veterans w/ Chimera 3 x flamers 140
Veterans w/ Chimera 3 x plasma guns 170

1 x Hellhound & 1 x Devil Dog 2 x smoke launchers & 1 x multimelta 275
1 x Vendetta Gunship 130
1 x Vendetta Gunship 130

1 x Leman Russ Demolisher lascannon 180
1 x Leman Russ Demolisher lascannon 180
1 x Colossus 140

While a CCS may not last 5 minutes, a veteran squad wont last much more. Both will last much longer if they have armourments befitting their BS4. So with this in mind why dont you give them a heavy weapon and keep the h.bolter & multi-laser. You dont have to rush with all your chimer's, Infact keeping one behind and shooting up transports/light infantry is just fine & it will keep that CCS alive longer. Otherwise you cant go wrong with a quad-melta squad that can order itself!

The 3 flamer dudes - Change to dual flamers + 1x Heavy flamer annd give them demolitions. I would even go as far to suggest to now swap these new vets with the vendetta-flying melta vets (So you do have one highly mobile anti-troop vet squad). Leaves you with 2-3 melta chims & 1 plasma chim.

I see you've got a mixed hell-hound + variants squad. Pleas tell me you've equipped the multi-melta to the Hellhound tank for the same reason. Redundancy.
You dont really need a MRP valkyrie, your fielding enough long-range template action as it is. So alls good there!

Lastly; Pew. 170pts for a plasma veteran AV12 chimy or 190pts for a AV14 triple plasma pie leman russ. Surely the latter is worth +20pts & you dont have problems with troops. Id downgrade the plasma guys to either melta or my flamer/demo varient and swap a demolisher for a Leman russ battle tank. I'd also suggest you give you give that Executioner a Leman Russ Battle tank buddy; 1st turn = Executioner pops smoke, LRBT shoots stuff and the squadren move up. 2nd turn vice versa. You may loose the LRBT turret gun unless they throw silly firepower your way. Its a good versitile shooty damage sponge.

Please drop the colossus. Its useless for its tiny narrow niche. MEQ in cover. The amount of saves a full volley from a LRBT/Exec combo will force will nuke most squads. Change it to the Manticore - Much better weapon system. With that change done, swap your second lone demolisher for another executioner (Assuming you downgraded your plasma veteran squad).

Hope that (probably overly long) reply helps.

apwill4765 wrote:This final list comes in at 2030. Did you mean LRBT instead of leman russ demolishers?

I ballsed up my counting. Minus the demo's on both veteran squads.

Razerous wrote:

mercer wrote:Company Command Squad w/ Chimera 3 x flamers - chimera w/ heavy flamer & heavy flamer 120

Veterans 3 x meltaguns 100
Veterans 3 x meltaguns 100
Veterans w/ Chimera 3 x meltaguns 155
Veterans w/ Chimera 3 x flamers 140
Veterans w/ Chimera 3 x plasma guns 170

1 x Hellhound & 1 x Devil Dog 2 x smoke launchers & 1 x multimelta 275
1 x Vendetta Gunship 130
1 x Vendetta Gunship 130

1 x Leman Russ Demolisher lascannon 180
1 x Leman Russ Demolisher lascannon 180
1 x Colossus 140

While a CCS may not last 5 minutes, a veteran squad wont last much more. Both will last much longer if they have armourments befitting their BS4. So with this in mind why dont you give them a heavy weapon and keep the h.bolter & multi-laser. You dont have to rush with all your chimer's, Infact keeping one behind and shooting up transports/light infantry is just fine & it will keep that CCS alive longer. Otherwise you cant go wrong with a quad-melta squad that can order itself!

The 3 flamer dudes - Change to dual flamers + 1x Heavy flamer annd give them demolitions. I would even go as far to suggest to now swap these new vets with the vendetta-flying melta vets (So you do have one highly mobile anti-troop vet squad). Leaves you with 2-3 melta chims & 1 plasma chim.

I see you've got a mixed hell-hound + variants squad. Pleas tell me you've equipped the multi-melta to the Hellhound tank for the same reason. Redundancy.
You dont really need a MRP valkyrie, your fielding enough long-range template action as it is. So alls good there!

Lastly; Pew. 170pts for a plasma veteran AV12 chimy or 190pts for a AV14 triple plasma pie leman russ. Surely the latter is worth +20pts & you dont have problems with troops. Id downgrade the plasma guys to either melta or my flamer/demo varient and swap a demolisher for a Leman russ battle tank. I'd also suggest you give you give that Executioner a Leman Russ Battle tank buddy; 1st turn = Executioner pops smoke, LRBT shoots stuff and the squadren move up. 2nd turn vice versa. You may loose the LRBT turret gun unless they throw silly firepower your way. Its a good versitile shooty damage sponge.

Please drop the colossus. Its useless for its tiny narrow niche. MEQ in cover. The amount of saves a full volley from a LRBT/Exec combo will force will nuke most squads. Change it to the Manticore - Much better weapon system. With that change done, swap your second lone demolisher for another executioner (Assuming you downgraded your plasma veteran squad).

Hope that (probably overly long) reply helps.

Reason for no heavy as you cannot move and shoot, this includes out of vehicles. So a transport would be just sitting there and not really transporting anything...

I had a dual flamer chimera before, doesn't work really. Having flamers is for anti infantry, and demos for vehicles. So I'll charge and blow a tank up and not use the flamers. Demos are better on a tank destroying unit, in case those meltas don't get the job done

Multimelta is on the hellhound . Well I exchanged two devil dogs for two gunships, I'm not losing anti tank and I can move faster as well and have more anti tank weapons

Plasma guys have been dropped for another flamer squad as I don't have the points.

Executioner will have a punisher. Massive amount of anti infantry fire power, may cost a lot of points but they are hard tanks to wreck. I'm not a fan of battle tanks so the demolishers stay, they are awesome

The colossus is far from useless. Its good against infantry, anything which is 3+ save and T6 is going to feel the pain. Though I'd rather take a executioner and punisher tag team combi.