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this came up yesterday while chatting (not an in game scenerio). in 3rd edition IIRC, only bike-mounted weapons got the equivalent of relentless. do all weapons carried on a bike (including the ones simply carried by the rider like plasma guns) now gain relentless or is there an exception somewhere in the BRB or faq that only bike-mounted weapons (the bolters for vanilla marines) get it? thanks in advance.

Bikes have the relentless special rule, so they can fire heavy weapons or long range rapid fire on the move.

All Weapons on the Bikes benefit now, not just the bike mounted ones.

Yup. I was going to put a libby on a bike just so I can use the heavy type powers and still move. A librarian epistolary on a bike can be a world of hurt of used properly.

Meh.
Snake Eyes and he instant kills himself, not my cup of tea. Short range is sort of meh too. It generally means the biker squad will commit to combat or close range shooting. Something that (IMO) shouldn't happen too often.

Because of that rarity, it might be hard to get more than 3 hits on infantry models.
If he is tank hunting, then that means he has to be within a sort range of a tank...why not just use biker squads with meltas/multi-meltas? Being that close means being available for counter attack and such.

And what other hvy weapons does the libby have?
And why epistolary.
That would mean the libby is 185 points for the whole package...that's is a crazy cost for a 2 wound no inv save model, that can kill himself...

/shrug. Whatever floats your boat.
Since you will most likely be using this once or twice, I find a Termy Armor SS libby with that same power a more frequent build for Vortex.

I normally run a Termy Armor Storm Sheild libby as my HQ in my lists. The biker one was just a flight of fancy for a while and it was sorta fun to play.

Vortex of Doom is the only heavy class power (though avenger was one also, sorry), but I rocked that usually with either Force Dome, Null Zone or Machine Curse. Some time just machine curse and Null Zone. But Epistolary because using both powers has been very beneficial in most games I played.

The +1 toughness is also not a terrible thing.

Conversion beamers on bikes are pretty neat.

Meh...if only it were 'true toughness' I'd agree.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Conversion beamers on bikes are pretty neat.

in a big (8' by 8') map the its great. In a normal map you just can't get the range.

Tri wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Conversion beamers on bikes are pretty neat.

in a big (8' by 8') map the its great. In a normal map you just can't get the range consistantly, without needing to rely on hugging board edges, most likely with a squad for him to hide in, therefore wasting more points.

Fixed.

Sanctjud wrote:

Tri wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Conversion beamers on bikes are pretty neat.

in a big (8' by 8') map the its great. In a normal map you just can't get the range consistantly, without needing to rely on hugging board edges, most likely with a squad for him to hide in, therefore wasting more points.

Fixed.

I contest that. If any of tanks move in towards the centre of the board the he Will struggle to get at least 42". (If he's shoot at tanks on the other side of the board he's also going to have LOS issues)

Pssst, I was agreeing with you and reinforcing it.
My intentions were that even if at the board edge one botched ld test and bye bye. In addition to wasted points into something to protect him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sanctjud wrote:

Tri wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Conversion beamers on bikes are pretty neat.

in a big (8' by 8') map the its great. In a normal map you just can't get the range consistantly, without needing to rely on hugging board edges (even that won't help very much), most likely with a squad for him to hide in, therefore wasting more points, and can run off the board real easy on a simple morale test.

Fixed.

Double Fixed For Realz.

Sanctjud i know but i meant to make clear there is nearly no way to get 42" to use the best mode. 4' by 4' (starting size) roughly 68" across. 6' by 4' (average size) 87" across. Now some people may say that sounds ok but even on an average size board starting the tech priest in a corner that only leaves 33" (including closest point to closest point) and other then maybe IG who is going to have static vehicles set up in a place where you get LOS to the Tech priest and are across diagonally? If by some amazing chance you get a shot its a single small blast ¬_¬

lrn2Apoc?

I like the bikes are relentless rule, but fluffwise it seems a bit wierd -

A flootslogging marine, holding his plasma gun two handed, can't walk forward and fire off a well aimed longrange shot BUT a marine RIDING A MOTORCYCLE, can ride forward twice as fast, and make a long ranged shot, either shooting one handed, or riding his bike on rough terrain no handed! What's that about?

In fact the more I think about it, the whole idea of going into combat riding a huge motorcycle, is just so bonkers it makes it full of win!
It's stuff like that that makes me love 40K so much.

Malecus wrote:lrn2Apoc?

You are into Apocalypse? Fine ...

... in Apoc The conversion beam works much better BUT you would be better off on foot. On foot you could join a unit of scouts in the top of a building you've fortified. 2+ cover save and good line of sight (cover +1 for stealth +1 Bolster Defences so even 4+ building become a hard target). On a bike theres going to be a battle between you and your target unless your aiming at a Titan its going to get a cover save wasting the point of havign a str10 weapon.

Do riders on bikes get to fire their guns in addition to the bikes guns?

If not it makes scouts who are equipped with shotguns pointless as the tl bolter is better in every way, shape and form (as I understand it relentless models can still assault).

It's kind of fuzzy how it's presented in the codex and rulebook.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nevermind, found the answer.

Fateweaver wrote:Do riders on bikes get to fire their guns in addition to the bikes guns?

No, they cannot. The only reason scout bikers can take shotguns is for people who have those old models.

Thats strange cause the new scout bikers come with shotguns. But hey shotguns suck so why bother.

Haha:

"A flootslogging marine, holding his plasma gun two handed, can't walk forward and fire off a well aimed longrange shot BUT a marine RIDING A MOTORCYCLE, can ride forward twice as fast, and make a long ranged shot, either shooting one handed, or riding his bike on rough terrain no handed! What's that about?

In fact the more I think about it, the whole idea of going into combat riding a huge motorcycle, is just so bonkers it makes it full of win!
It's stuff like that that makes me love 40K so much."

That cracks me up too, and that they are even considered 'armored'. I could walk outside right now and take out a passing motorcycle with a stout stick! but in the far future they are AWESOME. They are beyond James Bond-y. Must be the big fat tires. I use 'em too!

But hey shotguns suck so why bother.

Because GW doesn't care about rules...

_________

Re; combat bikers.

Dudes, it's not that hard to think about.
Look at the bike, that wheel is pretty think, think of the Bike as moving platform, he doesn't need hands on the handles for a variety of possible reasons:
-Machine Spirit driving.
-Mind linked.
-It's 'set' on auto.
-It just goes straight handle bars used or not.
etc.

As a moving platform, it can just waltz forward while the SM hacks on both sides...etc.

Or a better notion is that the bike can zip forward quickly, stop for a few moments to let the rider fire off a well aimed shot, then move forward again. An attack bike doesn't need to stop at all because the shooter is not the driver, so it is basically just a tank (that moves and shoots a lot faster than a tank, but whatever...)

Still, a tad vague and gamey for my tastes.

Sanctjud wrote:
My intentions were that even if at the board edge one botched ld test and bye bye.

How you figure that? Perils of the Warp only inflicts one wound...................... So he'd have to fail at least twice.

don_mondo wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:
My intentions were that even if at the board edge one botched ld test and bye bye.

How you figure that? Perils of the Warp only inflicts one wound...................... So he'd have to fail at least twice.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Its not a psychic weapon .... it is a massive freaking gun.

My rationale for saying he could fall off the board was:
If he's joined a biker squad to 'hide' in it, chances are it's a small squad. One casualty and you have to make a morale test.

Certainly ld 10 is nice, but it WILL fail..and they WILL run off the board when you do (while hugging the side of the board).

Yes, I'm with Tri on the 'not a psychic weapon' part.

Ahhh, you're talking about running away, I thought you were talking about Perils of the Warp. Yeah, making them run away is actually pretty easy, especially for IG with Psyker Battle Squads...................