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hi everyone, new here at dakka dakka. anyway i wanted some second opinion about a list i've been working on.

hq:
farseer + jetbike + warding + witnessing + spirit stones + doom +
fortune +guide + singing spear
autarch + jetbike + lance + blasters

troops:
10 * dire avenger + exarch + shuriken + bladestorm
wave surpent + shuriken cannon + spirit stones
3 * jetbike + cannon + warlock + jetbike + destructor + singing spear
3 * jetbike + cannon + warlock + jetbike + destructor

elites
9 * harlequins with master and seer + 5 kisses
6 * fire dragons

fast attack
5 * shinning spears + exarch + skilled rider + withdraw
9 * warp spiders with exarch +power blades + withdraw

heavy support
prisem
prisem
falcon + shuriken cannon + spirit stones

The farseer can only use 2 powers a turn and he's expensive already, I would choose the 2 that are more important and just take those.

The autarch is a great place to put a fusion gun, I would take that instead of the mandiblasters.

The Falcon, which I presume carries the fire dragons, is not as good as a wave serpent for transport duties (in my opinion) I would switch it for a serpent. Or you could buy the fire dragon squad a serpent, and put the squad in the falcon anyway. Then the harlequin unit can hop into the wave serpent on the first turn. To get the points that would require, you could drop a few warp spiders, plus the points saved on the farseer.

I'd take dual deathspinners on the exarch before I took powerblades.

Looks ok for a non-cheesy competitive environment, the harlequins do look a little slow compared to the rest of the army, 2 3-man squads of guardian jetbikes seems a little weak, I would also take 2 psychic powers, 3 just seems like a waste of points... Also, how many points is this? I don't feel like tricky math ATM its really late...
I would suggest dropping a psychic power (fortune most likely, don't seem to have many uber/important units)/ merging the guardian jetbikes freeing 55 pts? which could be used to get more kisses on the harlequins...

Thos 4 man jetbike squads are awful. Way too small and they will get killed in an instant. 6man squads is a minimum.

As been pointed out before, Harlies are too slow, the falcon sucks at delivering dragons and Spiders have no buissnes in HtH at all so drop Blades and get dual spinner. Not a big fan of the Spears either. Way too expensive for what they do.

thanks for your insight however i disagree about the jet bikes. their whole point is to be a small harassment squad that will be small enough to hide behind cover in the assault
phase, keep a low profile in order to claim objectives at the end while overall just being a support unit that helps finish off wounded enemy squads


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another thing. i agree about the farseer and the warp spiders but i have fair amounts of success with the falcon as transport. a wave serpent seems to expensive for what it's worth.
as for the harlies more then five kisses is a bit of an overkill. i wouldn't want them to massacre the enemy squad to quickly cause then I'm open to enemy fire in my opponent's turn. and i don't think they would be that slow, in objective based games the enemy wont just hunker down,he would have to try and grab objectives and the harlies are perfect
for fighting over the objectives in the middle.
other than that thanks for your advice


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btw which psychic power should i drop?

What good is am cover save when they have the survivability of a 4!? man Tac squad. One volly of bolterfire from a tac squad will kill 2 bikes leaving you with a not unlikely failed ld test...

A wave serpent is not expensive for what it does. It is so superior to the falcon in that aspect that its not even funny. In todays game were melta is abundant the field is invaluable.

i didn't mean a cover save for the jet bikes i meant that they'll be able to get behind line of sight in the assault phase which should increase their survivability. you can't shoot what you can't see. plus they're just a support unit. worst case scenario they die, i can live with that. plus if i see that the situation is getting to hairy for them I'll just turbo boost them out of danger and wait for the end to cap some objectives or contest others. for a 130 point unit they do what they need to, pop some transports or lightly armored vehicles , support other units, hide from sight and contest objectives. not such a waste of points in my opinion, I'd say they're pretty cost effective, plus i like small squads cause they're more flexible can fire on more targets.

as for transport. look the dragons are really more of a suicide unit. with their low save and toughness they will probably die after popping just one tank, two tops. my intention is to launch them at any land raiders or that one particular extra tough vehicle that i simply must kill. for that purpose i usually have them out of the vehicle by turn two at which point the serpent becomes less effective then the falcon. yes the serpent is a better transport but it will finish it's transporting duties by turn 2. plus the way i usually play it is: first turn, i drive the falcon strait forward but out of line of sight at about range 18 of the target vehicle. the next turn i move 12, the dragons fire at 6, vehicle killed. in my view the dragons served their purpose and for that purpose you really don't need a serpent.


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so any way any advice on which psychic power i should drop

SpringLevel wrote:hi everyone, new here at dakka dakka. anyway i wanted some second opinion about a list i've been working on.

hq:
farseer + jetbike + warding + witnessing + spirit stones + doom +
fortune +guide + singing spear
autarch + jetbike + lance + blasters

troops:
10 * dire avenger + exarch + shuriken + bladestorm
wave surpent + shuriken cannon + spirit stones
3 * jetbike + cannon + warlock + jetbike + destructor + singing spear
3 * jetbike + cannon + warlock + jetbike + destructor

elites
9 * harlequins with master and seer + 5 kisses
6 * fire dragons

fast attack
5 * shinning spears + exarch + skilled rider + withdraw
9 * warp spiders with exarch +power blades + withdraw

heavy support
prisem
prisem
falcon + shuriken cannon + spirit stones

Ok, as mentioned already, you can only use two powers per turn on the farseer.

16 troop models isn't enough. Kill the bikes with ap3 and destroy avengers means you cannot capture any objectives, objectives are 2/3's of the missions. Beef up your bikes and get another avenger unit with a wave serpent in

I'd rather take striking scorpions than harlequins. They are stronger and have a better save.

Dragons need two units for dual threat. Kill that one unit and what anti tank do you have?

I'm not a fan of shining spears or warp spiders, anything out in the open like warp spiders will be gunned down.

I think for 2,000 points you haven't got a lot :(

i do have enough anti armor. singing spears, prisms, warp spiders for rear armor, shining spears can also wrack anything that isn't a raider. the only thing i need to fear is two land raiders but I'm sure the seers can handle them in a concentrated assault or focus prism fire.
i like the jet bikes the way they as well as the harlequins (i just love harlequins they look awesome!). however would you recommend changing the spiders for a second squad of avengers with wave serpent

2 Sining Spears...meh.
Prisms: not great Anti-tanks, they are much better Anti-infantry and then a bit decent at Anti-AV14.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't lable Warp Spiders for consistantly getting to rear armor, even then Ap- hampers that roll.
It's nice to have so many shots, but you end up glancing stuff to death, and that is more about denying the enemy the usage of the tank, but most likely not kill a tank outright.
Spears at vehicles is a desprate move.
Dragons are Dragons.

So.... I agree with others that long term AT is lacking.

-________
The list:

Farseer: which squad does he join? That sort of dictates what powers compliment him.
Autarch: I suggest a fusion gun as well.


DA look ok.
Jetbikes: meh. Larger squads are a bit better.
LoS blocking terrain varies at different places, but jetbikes are on large bases…that’s a large footprint, and with a moving game they won’t be out of LoS for long, then they are just MEQs…oh and if a morale check is needed they are only ld8.

Harlies: meh… you don’t have any anvils to make the most of them IMO.
Firdragon+Falcon is ok I guess…I thin the Falcon has lost some of it’s charm. Though no holofields means keeping costs low…but why not just get a waveserpent instead for the dragons?

Prisms are ok.

Warpspiders are ok..maybe a bit too big.

Shining spears are…meh.
If the farseer is joining these guys then they can’t withdraw.

i was thinking the farseer will go solo. btw are you sure that if i have an autarch with the shining spears then they can't hit and run

I never said the Autarch with the SS.
I said the Farseer with them can't withdraw.

Going solo is a bad Idea IMO.
He's either fortuning something else or himself...lose/lose situation there.

Str 6 bait if not fortuned.

SpringLevel wrote:i do have enough anti armor. singing spears, prisms, warp spiders for rear armor, shining spears can also wrack anything that isn't a raider. the only thing i need to fear is two land raiders but I'm sure the seers can handle them in a concentrated assault or focus prism fire.
i like the jet bikes the way they as well as the harlequins (i just love harlequins they look awesome!). however would you recommend changing the spiders for a second squad of avengers with wave serpent

4 singing spears are not anti tank. They are S6 6". That is far from anti tank lol. How you going to tackle things at range when your weapon is 6" range?

Prisms are not reliable anti tank. You scatter then you miss. They can get the job done, but you just hope you don't scatter.

Warp spiders are far from anti tank. You hoping to get rear armour and have no ap. They are definately not anti tank.

So, you have one affective anti tank unit, fire dragons.

3 jetbikes + a HQ isn't enough.

I would definately recommend changing spiders for avengers in a serpent.

i didn't mean their anti tank but they are a soft counter.
what would you recommend for more anti tank power
and which psychic power to drop

Another unit of fire dragons gives you dual threats and targets. I know fire dragons are nasty, I'll go for them first. If you have one unit once they're gone they're gone. Two are better. But don't invest a lot of points into them, they are a throw away unit.

Brightlances for anti rule. Best the eldar have really.

I would drop guide. Doom lets you re-roll to wound if I remember right, thats the nuts. Fortune lets you re-roll armour saves which is the nuts as well.

how about this:
HQ - farseer + bike + spirit stones + witnessing + warding + doom + fortune + spear -188
autarch + bike + lance + fusion gun -130
troops-2* 10 dire avengers + exarch + blade storm + shuriken - 152 in wave serpent with shuriken cannons and spirit stones - 110
2* 3 jetbikes + cannon + warlock + bike + destructor + singing spear -134
elites- 9 harlequins with master ,seer ans 5 kisses -232
6 dragons -96 in serpent with shurikens and stones -110
fast attack- 5 shinning spears + exarch + skilled + withdraw -222
heavy support- 2* prism 115
total - 2000

I still don't think those bike units are big enough. You need six really, you'll have 5 with your HQ in each.

as far as anti tank is concerned what are your thoughts

You still have one unit and haven't changed anything.

i added fusion to the autarch but didn't change anything else cause i didn't know what to change. any thoughts

Well mate, everyone has given you additional advice, but you've tried to refute every criticism. Some common threads include:

1. Your jetbike units are too small/you don't have enough scoring models.

2. You need more anti-tank.

3. Wave serpents are both cheaper and more durable than falcons, I don't see why you wouldn't take one to safely deliver your fire dragons to their target.

4. Take a power off the farseer. Guide is probably the least important one. Maybe Doom. You definitely need fortune, so keep that.

P.S. Singing spears are S9 and 12" range, a shining spear unit can hit and run if accompanied by an autarch, but not if accompanied by a farseer.

already changed to serpent and removed guide and added dire avengers check the revised list
HQ - farseer + bike + spirit stones + witnessing + warding + doom + fortune + spear -188
autarch + bike + lance + fusion gun -130
troops-2* 10 dire avengers + exarch + blade storm + shuriken - 152 in wave serpent with shuriken cannons and spirit stones - 110
2* 3 jetbikes + cannon + warlock + bike + destructor + singing spear -134
elites- 9 harlequins with master ,seer ans 5 kisses -232
6 dragons -96 in serpent with shurikens and stones -110
fast attack- 5 shinning spears + exarch + skilled + withdraw -222
heavy support- 2* prism 115
total - 2000

lol still no difference on anti tank. One fusion gun on a autarch isn't enough.

Do you want me to write a list out for you?

sure


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btw does giving a fusion gun to the autarch or mounting him in a bike mean that he doesn't get an attack bonus for the shuriken pistol

Farseer - jetbike, spirit stones, runes of witnessing, doom, fortune & singing spear

9 x Harlequins - 1 x master, seer & 5 x kisses

5 x fire dragons - wave serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon

5 x fire dragons - wave serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon

10 x Avengers w/ wave serpent - serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon

10 x Avengers w/ wave serpent - serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon

6 x Eldar Jetbikes - 2 x shuriken cannons

6 x Eldar Jetbikes - 2 x shuriken cannons

1 x Fire Prism

1 x Fire Prism

You now have two large jetbike units, which makes it four troops in total.

Two units of fire dragons giving you dual threat.

Check the points though, I haven't added it up. Though my list is a-like excpet I have striking scorpions in a transport instead of harlequins, 3 units of avengers instead of two and one fire prism.

Its a good start. However i'd drop the spears and use the remaining points on scorpoins or more troops.

btw does giving a fusion gun to the autarch or mounting him in a bike mean that he doesn't get an attack bonus for the shuriken pistol

SpringLevel wrote:btw does giving a fusion gun to the autarch or mounting him in a bike mean that he doesn't get an attack bonus for the shuriken pistol

Nope, as long as you say that he using the pistol, especially important if the fusion gun is in his hand. However i'm not sure that you can move, shoot with the fusion gun, assault and then claim +1 bonus because you fired with the fusion gun, its similar to what the GW man told us while i was playing a game a couple of days ago.


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That was all about the fusion gun. On the bike he definetely gets +1.

sweet thanks