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I'm in the process of building a SM biker list, and then I saw this unit that I (and it seems many others) have never really looked at before, the scout bikers.

These guys have some nice rules, especially scout. They also have lots of unique options.

I think the deff kopta is awesome for its ability to first turn assault vehicles or infantry, and it seems the scout bikers could do the same even better. They have the same save and T, but one less wound, but better strength, BS, Ld and options.

On the pretty expensive end, we have this unit:
3-4 scout bikers, powerfist, cluster mines, 2-3 astarters grenade launcher, combi-weapon
165pts

It can scout move, then move up on the enemy unit/units of choice, blast them with 6 S6 shots (or 6 S3 blasts for infantry), and a melta/flamer shot. Should be enough to cause serious casualities against infantry, or to break open a transport. Heavier tanks might not care, but they will on the following charge.

The unit could then charge an immobile tank or a soft unit (or a seriously weakened one)

On the cheap end, we have this:
3 scout bikers, powerfist, cluster mines (maybe meltabombs?)
105pts

Would probably only beat up one tank, or a really soft unit (like longfangs, guardsmen etc) I included clusters because it seems like a no brainer when you invest in scout bikers, 10 pts to make an enemy unit take 2d6 S4 hits and maybe make them think twice about entering the best terrain (like 2nd floor building, that bikers can't reach), seems totally worth it.
- while on the topic, how does cluster mines work if the enemy deploys into the booby-trapped terrain? Do they take the hits before the game, do they take them only if they move? What if they deploy several units in the terrain?


You could of course add more bikers to the units to make the impact even harder, but then again, you may not want to send 200+ pts to a sure death, even if they take a lot with them, but more bikers also open up for multi-charges, and a better use of them when you don't get first turn, or when the enemy reserves/have little worth alpha striking, and extra bikers are "only" 20pts.

Do you think it is a viable unit to use in a biker army, or are attack bikes and land speeders just way more important for a biker list?

I'd pay the points to add the locator beacon if you have anything that might want to deepstrike as well, using the scouts move pregame to get the beacon into position for Drop Pod Assault is always popular...

Jack

Can work but be warned Long fangs aren't a soft target.

I have a biker army.
They have never appealed to me, nor do I think they ever will.

They run more like Ravenwing… if I wanted Ravenwing, I’d play Ravenwing.

They are some sort of weak wanna be Ravenwing…which is something I personally don’t need.
SM bikers are hammers, and I prefer to maximize that aspect.

Cluster Mines: can work against you, hence not an option for me. Putting them down before deciding side is not as useful as it could have been.
Gren Launcher: Decent against hordes, but they are some sorry hybrid of the more bread and butter special weapons…

Are you sure you can purchase a combi-weapon in addition to the fist….I don’t think so….so that is shot down.

165…hmm, I rather have 3 MM Attack Bikes which in practice has done more than I can praise them for.
And they occupy all of my FA slots…

Beating on tanks first turn is easy to see coming and is a easy to counter.
Breaking open transports is not always a healthy thing for them.

Cluster mines: you have to move onto the to trigger them I believe.
If they are deployed on it, and never move then they never trigger it.
Simple as that.
So should they move, or fallback due to morale, they should then take those cluster mine attacks.

Bikers are not a turn 1 commitment. They are a turn 4-5 army.

I’m sure they can ‘work’ for anyone interested in using them…I just don’t find anything that good in them.
Now if they could score/become troops……….I’d be all over them, even if it meant losing scouts or infiltrate……. Or both.
But as it is now, I rather spend points on scoring bikers with special weapons, or more Attack Bikes.
Attack Bikes are prob. the best buys in the whole codex.

If you take a Captain on a bike any bike squad of 5 models or more can be taken as troops this makes it possible to play a White scar armie

Well, read it closer.
Regular bikers NOT scout bikers become troops.

Huge difference there Grey Templar.
Please reread the rules for mounted assault on page 130 and 132 in the SM codex.
Then look on page 140 and 141 for the Space Marine Bike Squad and the Scout Bike Squad, they are 2 different entries and hence are different.

Mounted Assault only applies to power armored Bikers.

So........if you were correct, I'd be for them.
Since you are not correct about their scoring status, they don't appeal to me.

I didn't know you meant scout bikers

I never said they would be scoring

What do you mean by "Mounted Assault"??? ???

1. Read the topic, it's about scout bikers.
2. Mounted Assault: read the pages I listed when you can. But answer is: it's the name of the rule that makes SM Bikers score.

AAAAhhh, everything makes sense now. I have used my bikes only once and never as troops

I've used Scout Bikers before with moderate success. I usually circumvent the cluster mines issue by deploying them in central terrain that all might be used for deployment or by enemy units trying to close on my lines. One game they were wasted because the enemy never entered the building. Another game, they downed a wave serpent and stranded a squad of Banshees on the third floor of a building. It tends to work well if you deploy an objective near the cluster mines and kinda lead the enemy into them, especially if its a central objective you can easily contest. The other two times they performed as expected and killed a few guys in a guard squad and a banshee squad.

I usually run 4 scouts, 3 GLs, Cluster Mines, Combi-Flamer. I don't normally try to alpha strike with them. I prefer to outflank. Against the IG, they came in on turn five but did help out by coming in a position to keep two fleeing squads running off the table, allowing the squads which broke them to double back and finish off an immobilized demolisher and the GLs at long range killed two mortars out of a HWS squad caught in the open from the angle the Bikes came in on and caused them to break. Effectively helped pick up two extra KPs which is a big swing since the game ended that turn. The other game against IG they came on next to a mortar HWS and a battery of 2 Basilisks. Shot the Basilisks, then combi charged the Basilisks and the mortars to kill both in one turn, then moved up the field to take out the remnants of a 20 man squad and a command squad that were hiding near an objective on the back side of the building.

Against the Eldar, they've come on twice and once killed Fire Dragons trying to hug cover after their Falcon went down (6 GL shots at AP4, 1 flamer template) and the other time came in next to some Guardians in the woods who promptly got flamed before the Bikes turbo-boosted onto an objective.

Summary is, I've had good success outflanking them and using them to wipe out weak infantry claiming backfield objectives and wiping out remnants damaged earlier in the game.

I've had great success with them they really are a annoying stop you in the tracks bog unit.


5 models w
powerfist
3 Astartes launchers
Meltabombs
170 point


If you get the first turn you can have them first turn charge vehicles and blow the crap out of them with melta bombs powerfist and krak grenades.

Also remember the multi charge you can multi charge more than one vehicle with some skill.


generally its one of my favorite units out of the space marine codex.

Also 6 STR6 shots from astartes launchers are pretty great versus rear armour.

Also, id like to point out that the biker sgt can have a astartes launcher making it Ballistic of 4.

I like the look of that unit, will probably try it out instead of 2x typhoons a couple of times, fits perfectly if I just add cluster mines. While bikers may be a late game hitter, it couldn't hurt to have the ability to do some alpha striking or outflanking.

Good catch on the sarge being able to use the AL, didn't catch that myself

The best thing about scout bikers is a combo of their scout move (can you turbo-boost during this as to have the cover save the first turn?) and the locator beacon. You use this with your drop pod army so that the drop pods arrive EXACTLY where you want them too on the first turn. If the scouts live, then your terminators and landspeeders come in to mop up on the second + turns.

No cover save for turbo boosting.
It was not a 'previous' 'movement phase' in which they turboed because there was no previous turn for a movement phase before turn 1.

Well, I find it wasted points Perturabo.
You pay for some impressive delivery already, ignoring almost all things that would make them roll on the mishap table.

Only useful if you have points to spare...even then...err

Agreed that the locator is just ok, it costs the same as a fist, and drop pods are pretty safe anyways. If vanguard or termies could deepstrike in turn 1, it would be nice, but then you could go play raven+deathwing


@Sanctjud

I saw your bike list, why do you go with HB attack bikes in your melta bike squads? Wouldn't they gain more from the multimelta?

When I am running an all-bike army, which is about 50 % of the time, I will take them if I am fighting a human army. Against Xenos, they are never really worth it. Against any human type force though, they work pretty well.

Infiltrate and a 24 inch scout move give you a lot of flexibility. The obvious choice is to use them to demolish a must-die enemy tank in the first turn, if you get it. Since you know whether or not you will be going first before you scout them, they are much easier to use than previously.

I personally find my biker army gets beaten up by artillery. It is probably the single most dangerous thing to me, because my speed is no protection. The scouts are great at taking out manticores, collosus, etc. Additionally, you can take out units that would give the biker army fits, like fleeting defilers, or rhinos full of thousand sons.

I feel that when you are playing against a human army, there is always at least one armor unit that needs to die as soon as possible. The scouts give a great shot at that. There is a lot of hubris against them at the elite level, but I think they are a good unit. If your enemy wants to counter them, he has to rearrange his deployment pretty bad. If he chooses to do this, just infiltrate them somewhere else, and use them as crowd control, or to blast deepstrikers.

Well... the reasons:

1. My selection of bitz; I bought 6 Attack bikes, that gives me 6 Hvy Bolters and 6 Multi-meltas. My plan is for the 6 multi-meltas to be converted into hand held versions...held by Marines on Juggernaughts as the MM AB.

2. Breaking up melta spam. My area has soft scores, I'm just using a variety of weapons so as not to look like I spam just one type of weaponry.

3. Combat squadding: I like a small squad to hang back, near (not on) an objective and maximize limiting LoS to the enemy. The extra range allows them to reach out.

4. I have MMABs in a squadron in FA already, and they’ve been decent.

5. I use the HBAB as a wound dump, so keeping him as cheap as possible is the goal. Not minding taking DT test on him too.

6. The Biker squad is (In my eyes) primarily an anti-infantry platform. I take meltas on them for defensive purposes, while MMAB is more offensive tank hunting.
So the HBAB is there to compliment the squad rather than supplement them.

7. I rather not make each squad more than 300 points.
__________________________-

I’m not disagreeing that the MMAB could be a good option.
I think it’s a good option, but I don’t want to be spamming like that.
Now, if I expand out to a 4 th biker squad, I may go with a Double Plasma/MMAB.



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@Silverthorne:

So basically tailor the scouts to fight….Imperial Guard (if that’s what you mean by saying ‘human army’.)

Not exactly easier…

If you deploy first/go first, the opponent can deploy defensively. All it takes is an infantry screen and you are left with shooting to down a tank.
In addition there is always seizing the initiative.
Dawn of War means you are left with only 2 options: Outflank or move onto the board turn 1…which disallows them to perform their primary trick (autohit nonmoved vehicles turn 1).

The scouts rely on that first turn if you need to infiltrate close, that ‘6’ will end them.

Why is speed no protection? The only thing that does ignore cover that’s ordinance is Collosus, but that has a minimum range to it.

Scouts vs. Defiler is a meh matchup…while taking out a rhino wo the…..who the hell uses Thousand Sons….who the hell relies on defilers?

You can use the scouts as a speed bump….but there are better options to do that.

Deploying defensively is not auto-bad deployment. IG have infantry squads to spare and it’s not hard to counter as the scouts will most likely be the only target to the majority of small arms fire that distance.

If he deploys defensively, the scouts have lost their edge…and are used for roles that do not fit them, hence a waste of points. Mind you, one is still tailoring… so the scope is too narrow to be (IMO) useful.

Deploying Defensively is what I prefer the enemy to do when I am playing bikers though. If he knows that I would rather stay out of assault, he will realize that expanding through the board is going to limit my mobility pretty good. So I prefer facing a defensive deployment. The scouts help make that a reality.

For all the talk of screening w/ infantry squads that goes on in Imperial Guard Circles, I rarely see it. It would seem like IG should had grunts to spare for it, but that isn't really the case. Vets are too valuable to waste on babysitting guard artillery (although I have seen a build where that catachan vet dude + a vet squad w/ ac and plasma screened a 2x russ squadron...gross). Typically platoons are either blobbed or in their chimera squadrons. Either way, they aren't daisy-chaining around tanks. Even if they are, they have to be close enough to the tank to make it work, and after they have a few holes blown in them w/ astartes launchers, the charge reaction and all other considerations usually allow the scout sergeant to tap on that unmoving vehicle. In my experience, anyway. All of this in addition to the obvious money play w/ scouts; getting them in combat w/ a chimera wall on the first turn of the game. 200 ish points to cripple a chimera wave is a good investment, even if it is not completely reliable. Plus, if you are going second, or whatever else the situation is, the launchers are a great weapon against the guard, instant killing weapon teams and characters, or dropping templates down on commissar backed super squads.

Speed looses a lot of merit against indirect fire weapons. I try to stay out of my enemy's range and LOS when using bikers, to limit return fire while I get the best mileage out of Relentless. Artillery doesn't care about your LOS or to a large extent, how far away you are either. And if you are scrambling to get into the minimum window of the artillery, you are hemming yourself in. Not awesome for an army that pays so much more for mobility. Also consider that artillery typically ignores the extra toughness of bikers.

If you haven't faced a TS army with a few defilers with your biker army yet, seek one out. I think you will find it more challenging than you might expect. Bikers are ace at murdering tanks and nailing isolated things, but they can struggle with putting enough wounds on just bog standard meqs in my experience. TS can punish you massively if you slow down enough to shoot them. With S&P, they can hit you if you can hit them. And they are blasting away at AP3. Even with better toughness, it isn't a matchup that bikers are going to win. If you throw a few defilers in, then tying up the sons in combat isn't a great play either. I would encourage you to play this matchup if you have a TS player available. It is a tough, fun game for the bikers. I'll warn you though, 'Who the hell uses these?' is an unreliable defensive stratagem for countering mass inferno bolts.

Also- I meant CSM, SM, IG, SoB, and Inquisition. Anything human, or mostly human. These armies (except pure DH) tend to have a lot of av10-12 vehicles, which the scouts are optimized against (especially in the alpha strike).

Anything Human or mostly human…I generally use the terms MEQ and GEQ.
_______________________
/shrug.
Different points of view and play styles I guess.

I rather have my enemy spread out though. I can focus on Force Concentration and take which part I think is easier or most threatening.
If he castles up…I groan.
It means I need to play the… shoot but stay in cover and whittle down til there’s something useful to do more close range fire…
Castled opponents sort of put me on the defensive.

It’s a one trick pony though.
For 200 you better take out 4ish Chimeras.

In addition, our gaming groups must differ a great deal. Chaining is something I see regularly. For the weird cover save for tanks… and most guestimate to almost annoying levels of accuracy… so combo charges (as I’m known for over at 40K Online) is much harder for me… maybe easy for you, who knows.

Characters are not usually alone, buried in squads. But the rate of fire is impressive if within 12… but you are spending so many points to kill say a command platoon of some sorts…that had to have been forced out of their ride by something else.

Most Hvy weapon squads I’ve seen are on higher terrain a decent way into the enemies’ army.

Yea, but if you are boosting (colossus aside) you get your cover. Taking a beating from IG at closer range is moot point… it’s something everyone has to deal with.

I’ve seen a squad of hydras form a wall around the colossus with chimeras around that…..if the IG player wants his tanks kept alive from close scout/scoutbikers, he will do it.
If he protects it from ranged threats… it is no longer impossible to charge, but you can shoot it, the most he gets is a cover save.

I don’t know why you have issues with MEQ. Generally the TL-bolters and specia/hvy weapons are enough to down at least 30-40%. Because most of the MEQ’s in my area are CSM or just fearless, they don’t run away and I charge in, taking another 30% down, then am stuck in combat for a 2 round assault so I don’t get shot….if they counter assault, they counter assault, but those TS are not huge problem for me as their defensive qualities from small arms are no different from normal MEQ’s, but they cost a lot more, hence lower model count.

T 5 is enough in most cases to mitigate most damage, in addition, one slows down to engage them when they are out.
You can always turbo close to them to tempt them to engage…damned if they don’t and wait, damned if they do and have to deal with T5 and the cover.

10 guys double tapping on NON-turbo boosted bikers yields 4 wounds. On one captain and one on attack bike, would mean to deaths.
That hurts but it’s doable.

10 guys out of rhino shooting at 24” is only 10 shots, 2 wounds, then maybe 1, as I wouldn’t be engaging them with bikers yet.
If I have to, I do have multiple hvy bolter platforms, if he’s outside the metal box I outrange the TS (obviously not the Defiler, but that’s what MMAB’s are for).

TS are an uphill climb army they are a niche army.
Their nicher is MEQs out of cover, now it happens, but even then the basic str 4 of it is an equalizer.
Coupled with lack of Uber grit, high cost, stuck with only a force weapon, they’ve never appealed to me.
But I did use them when the codex first came out for a month or two. Then about 3 months ago I was giving my Crap Legion a try….. and gave them a try…they still don’t impress.
Spawn, Possessed, Lesser daemons, wingless DPs, Zerkers with only plasma pistols tasked with shooty role and dreads were making more of an impact, doing more damage, being more bad ass than the TS were…
At the end…I’ll admit the YMMV.

They’ve never impressed me nor my gaming group. Nor do I even see that many people jump on their band wagon in terms of competitive gaming.
I know of one specific TS that had the funny idea to use the Loyalist Codex as the skeleton of his TS army.
It works very will with the conversion he’s done…….


But I will admit, I liked the beginning point of view of how you like the opponent to deploy. It’s the polar opposite to what I do, but I can see some one liking all the targets in a nice place with more room to drive around.

But, on topic, I don’t think the Scouts make or break that. They are a flavor unit that seem to only do one thing really well when conditions from Deployment til turn 1 all work in your favor.
I feel there are too many conditions to make the most of them…else they are tasked with a sub optimal role of fire support…bringing unique but ‘jack of all trades, master of none’ weapon.

In essence… I see them as a scalpel in an army of hammers…a taste issue.
I feel if you like scalpels go with Ravenwing…keep the Hammer army as hammers.

Sanctjud wrote:Well... the reasons:

1. My selection of bitz; I bought 6 Attack bikes, that gives me 6 Hvy Bolters and 6 Multi-meltas. My plan is for the 6 multi-meltas to be converted into hand held versions...held by Marines on Juggernaughts as the MM AB.

Sanctjud you're my hero

It really takes a coule of games of using them in order to learn their benefits and weaknesses.

It really changes your opponents set up for 1st or 2nd turn in that he has to decide whether he wants to hole up or deploy away from 12 inches.


I take two squads usually and 2 LS.

I usually scout one or infiltrate and leave the other to outflank and threaten.

This makes the opponent if he is intelligent really choose his deployment. Does he want to turtle somewhat to limit his vulnerabilities does he want to keeo 15 inches away or more from either board edge in order to avoid an outflank?


The thing I notice the most is that opponents turtle somewhat when they see scout bikers. You do not want to be on the receiving end of making a mistake in deployment or during your movement for them to take advantage of.


Try them out as others have said they're a very very flexible and unique unit that is something the codex overall doesn't have.


i highly recommend just trying out the unit I posted and see how your opponents react to it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
edit:

Oh turtling with vehicles such as chimeras is not a good idea with Bikers as if you lose the first turn or otherwise do not move their gonna ride in with a powerfist, meltabombs and krak grenades and blow up a couple.

Turtling with mass numbers is okay but they have tougness 5 and a 3+ armour save along with ST4 and can more than happily beat the crap out of most imperial guard squads , guardians, orks get hammered with 6 blast templates and 6 shots from bolters.

Try them out; as others have said,. they're a very very flexible in the deployment phase and a unique unit (just like everything else) that is something the codex overall doesn't have (nor needs).

Added my own twist.
I am 100% for trying them out.

They have alot of flare (unique combination of special abiilties), but all of it is really just...what's the word/phrase...

Parlor Tricks? Yea, something like that. They offer something the SM list doesn't have, but it's not on a need basis. It's one of those 'cool' if it works, 'that sucks' if it doesn't.

They are flexible in deployment and have a cool gun, but they balance that out by having meh durability and generally meh skills at shooting and combat.

Their choice of targets are limited to GEQ and worse out of cover and rear/sidish armor, but requires a dangerous range for them to do any of that well.

I think the worst part of the scouts is that everything screams scoring...but don't.

They would be a little overpowered if scoring. I agree its one of those units that takes a little bit more thought process to it than the standard marine unit its why people have difficulty with them. The can do alot though so its a good deal overall.

Not over powered...see.
I would take them even if they started putting restrictions...like:

Loss of Infiltrate and minimum squad size for troop brought up to...5-10 somewhere there.

They are a utility unit. It's a win big/lose big unit that sacrifices durability and putting itself in dangerous positions for those special rules used.
^---that is as objective as I've been so far...any disagree?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My issue is that they take a fast attack slot.
That means less landspeeders and attack bike squarons...

Sanctjud wrote:Not over powered...see.
I would take them even if they started putting restrictions...like:

Loss of Infiltrate and minimum squad size for troop brought up to...5-10 somewhere there.

They are a utility unit. It's a win big/lose big unit that sacrifices durability and putting itself in dangerous positions for those special rules used.
^---that is as objective as I've been so far...any disagree?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My issue is that they take a fast attack slot.
That means less landspeeders and attack bike squarons...

Only thing I disagree with is the win big/lose big aspect of the assessment. They have the potential to win big if you want to alpha strike, but that is not what they are best at. Scout Bikes are fundamentally a disruption unit. I find the best mileage I get out of them is using cluster mines to mess with my opponents mind (not knowing where they are can be very disconcerting, especially if softer infantry units are on the board) and outflanking them to pick on weaker units that are used to hold home quarter objectives. The range on the GL gives you the ability to hang back for a late turn turbo-boost and when equipped with a combi-flamer, they have great success with burning IG, Eldar or WON Gaunts off backfield objectives and forcing the opponent to react to them.

('Messing with the opponent's mind).
Well...what kind of opponent are we talking about?

I frankly wouldn't care too much about cluster bombs, I either have plague marines or bikers...the first doesn't care too much about the damage aspect of cluster mines, while the bikers generally never enter terrain save the enemies.

One wrong decision with the mines and YOU get the mines on a terrain piece in your deployment zone. Then you may or may not what that terrain.
_______________________

Well, I was addressing how most people use bikers: as first turn chargers.
In essense that is a win/big lose big situation.

If he seizes the initiative, they die.
If he's not all mech and has units out of the tanks screening, then the primary purpose is no longer there, and you have to fallback to secondary purposes which are not as glamous or immediate rewards as the primary purpose.

A disruption unit they are, I agree. But a regular biker unit can do that role as well, but from a different angle, brings the special weapons and can be scoring, and a bit more tougher. Only for a bit more.
Then that opens up a FA slot form etc. etc.

The issue is... you can burn stuff better with the normal bikers, or you go with a WW and punish those units you listed out of line of sight.

Bikers hanging around 24" away from an obj is a good thing... though you can do that with speeders and other bikers.

Problems all bikers have:
What if that objective if in terrain....no can do then. Or on a different floor.

That limits that role.

Sure it's an application unit, but all I've seen is taking on units that are poor vs. anything in close quarters...which there are alot of options.

I think 3 Hvy bolter Attack bikes are something that appeals to me and works somewhat similar to the anti-infantry nature of the scout bikers.
In addition they are cheap enough to throw into combat much like the scouts, but HBAB are a different animal to the Scout bikers.

They don't interest me in any way some have noted. Though I did want to try a full max squad, with fist and 3 grenade launchers...but that means dropping my HBABs who have always performed and have never let me down...in addition to that they just don't 'fit' into a biker army....rather they fit into an army (as said before by someone) that builds the list around them.

In which case, I'm not one for basing lists around a unit/relying on something to do anything consistantly.

One thing people need to rememberis their fantastic anti horde units as well. Dirt cheap at 20 ppm and BS 3 twinlinked Boltguns along with a possible 6 template shots.

Sanctjud wrote:('Messing with the opponent's mind).
Well...what kind of opponent are we talking about?

I frankly wouldn't care too much about cluster bombs, I either have plague marines or bikers...the first doesn't care too much about the damage aspect of cluster mines, while the bikers generally never enter terrain save the enemies.

One wrong decision with the mines and YOU get the mines on a terrain piece in your deployment zone. Then you may or may not what that terrain.
_______________________

Well, I was addressing how most people use bikers: as first turn chargers.
In essense that is a win/big lose big situation.

If he seizes the initiative, they die.
If he's not all mech and has units out of the tanks screening, then the primary purpose is no longer there, and you have to fallback to secondary purposes which are not as glamous or immediate rewards as the primary purpose.

A disruption unit they are, I agree. But a regular biker unit can do that role as well, but from a different angle, brings the special weapons and can be scoring, and a bit more tougher. Only for a bit more.
Then that opens up a FA slot form etc. etc.

The issue is... you can burn stuff better with the normal bikers, or you go with a WW and punish those units you listed out of line of sight.

Bikers hanging around 24" away from an obj is a good thing... though you can do that with speeders and other bikers.

Problems all bikers have:
What if that objective if in terrain....no can do then. Or on a different floor.

That limits that role.

Sure it's an application unit, but all I've seen is taking on units that are poor vs. anything in close quarters...which there are alot of options.

I think 3 Hvy bolter Attack bikes are something that appeals to me and works somewhat similar to the anti-infantry nature of the scout bikers.
In addition they are cheap enough to throw into combat much like the scouts, but HBAB are a different animal to the Scout bikers.

They don't interest me in any way some have noted. Though I did want to try a full max squad, with fist and 3 grenade launchers...but that means dropping my HBABs who have always performed and have never let me down...in addition to that they just don't 'fit' into a biker army....rather they fit into an army (as said before by someone) that builds the list around them.

In which case, I'm not one for basing lists around a unit/relying on something to do anything consistantly.

Don't get me wrong. I use Scout Bikers for fun but my normal FA choices are HBAB, MMAB and a Typhoon Squadron. But most opponents in my area are loathe to expose foot infantry to the possibility of cluster mines. And as I said above, you get the most mileage out of cluster mines by locating them centrally on the board. That keeps them out of your deployment zone and puts them in a position where they can do some good later on in the game. I've found that outside of random luck, the best effect cluster mines have is deterring your opponent from doing something.

And while, as ever, YMMV when using Scout Bikers I've found that a unit of them popping one from the sides and unloading on something always forces a disproportinate reaction from my opponent. The firepower potential plus T5 tends to make people over commit assests to make them go away and against most backfield units they are extremely effective (guard artillery, eldar guardians, WON gaunts on objective, etc.). Its just a different unit to achieve the same effect.

@Hollismason:

Yea, which was suggested to tailor them to IG/GEQ which is not something I do (tailor).

They are only of great value when opening up at the 12" range.
Which means they better kill what they shoot, or they die. In addition, it means you need something to bunch the opponent up, like tank shocking, which also means you need to wait before you commit (which is hard for some people).

What do you suggest as a squad size and triple AGL?
Too large and they get expensive for just horde duty, too little and they are too soft.
Cheap yes, but you miss out on power armor for abilities (when tasked with anti horde) that they won't use to amazing results.

@PanzerLeader:

best effect cluster mines have is deterring your opponent from doing something.

If they are not playing with a pair .
/shrug, I've never been worried about cluster mines... I usually 'make' my own cover, not set foot in it, or am too tough to make a casualty likely.

Outflanking is a parlor trick, normal bikers/attack ikes/ anything fast like Speeders can do a similar job.

I think I would use them if I had an army list that relied on doing a drop pod assault. But I'd just give them a locator beacon and melta bombs. They get that turbo boosting scout move to get that locator beacon where you want it, and then anything you do with those melta bombs is gravy. Maybe cluster mines too, just for fun.