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Okay so I was pretty much under the impression that the power was okay but powerful in certain situations but I was on Bell of Lost Souls and saw Goatboy giving out ideas to best use and abuse Jaws. Here is the part that made my jaw drop..


5. Initiative Test: There are a couple of items in the game that can actually change your Initiative, like a Thunder Hammer or Sacred Incense (CH). If you can manage to use them on the target of your JotWW, then you'll make that Initiative test that much harder. A Thunder Hammer is pretty nasty because it reduces the Initiative value of a model wounded to 1 until the end of the next player's next turn. (Since the reduction in Initiative only happens until the end of the next turn, it's tough to pull off. You need to wound the model on your opponent's turn; however...)

Dirty Trick #5: Arjac Rockfist's Foehammer is "a thunderhammer that can be used as a ranged weapon" in YOUR Shooting phase. That means Arjac can nail a Wraithlord (or a Hive Tyrant or Abaddon), reduce the target to Initiative 1 and then your Rune Priest can mop it up 83% of the time. This is extra nasty because Arjac re-rolls hits and wounds against Independent Characters and Monstrous Creatures!

I know it's not the most politically correct thing to say, but Jaws of the World Wolf is lots of fun to use. It's one of those rare abilities that can dramatically change the game with a single roll (so is Njal's sweet Lord of Tempests ability). While totally unbalanced for tournament play (and particularly harsh for armies like Necrons and Tyranids), the power certainly spices up friendly games!

Warmaster scott - yes it can be very nasty. It is also defeated by simply being a vehicle.

You are wrong on Arjac: his TH has a specific ranged profile and does not contain any special rules that make it act like a TH at range. It does *not* reduce your I to 1 at range.

If you try to insist it does do so< i require you to strike at I1 with it. AS you can find no rule that lets you do this, the game ends at that point as no actions can take place. Or you stop looking for those Easter Eggs that JJ specificallyt said they do not include.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Warmaster scott - yes it can be very nasty. It is also defeated by simply being a vehicle.

You are wrong on Arjac: his TH has a specific ranged profile and does not contain any special rules that make it act like a TH at range. It does *not* reduce your I to 1 at range.

If you try to insist it does do so< i require you to strike at I1 with it. AS you can find no rule that lets you do this, the game ends at that point as no actions can take place. Or you stop looking for those Easter Eggs that JJ specificallyt said they do not include.

How am I wrong? That was me quoting the BoLS people or did you fail to read that part?

The BoLS people were wrong.

Agreed I was just a bit suprised that BoLS seemed proud to try to break the power.. I mean with all of the hackles up by many of the community it seems a bit a poke to rile people or they figured they were just oh so clever.

BoLS very often has "tactics" that are written with an incomplete understanding of the rules, and thus are of dubious value. It's simply something I've come to expect of them.

Ah sorry - it wasn't obvious it was a quote, as you didnt use the "quote" tags. You're nto wrong, however you are "wrong" in that the quote you put in as if it works is wrong

Still, the BoLS people are wrong - this has been discussed previously, and there are no instances where the complete rules for a weapons effect are not included as "special rules" - even Sternguard entirely replace the weapon profile for their special ammunition.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Ah sorry - it wasn't obvious it was a quote, as you didnt use the "quote" tags. You're nto wrong, however you are "wrong" in that the quote you put in as if it works is wrong

Still, the BoLS people are wrong - this has been discussed previously, and there are no instances where the complete rules for a weapons effect are not included as "special rules" - even Sternguard entirely replace the weapon profile for their special ammunition.

"5. Initiative Test: There are a couple of items in the game that can actually change your Initiative, like a Thunder Hammer or Sacred Incense (CH). If you can manage to use them on the target of your JotWW, then you'll make that Initiative test that much harder. A Thunder Hammer is pretty nasty because it reduces the Initiative value of a model wounded to 1 until the end of the next player's next turn. (Since the reduction in Initiative only happens until the end of the next turn, it's tough to pull off. You need to wound the model on your opponent's turn; however...)

Dirty Trick #5: Arjac Rockfist's Foehammer is "a thunderhammer that can be used as a ranged weapon" in YOUR Shooting phase. That means Arjac can nail a Wraithlord (or a Hive Tyrant or Abaddon), reduce the target to Initiative 1 and then your Rune Priest can mop it up 83% of the time. This is extra nasty because Arjac re-rolls hits and wounds against Independent Characters and Monstrous Creatures!

I know it's not the most politically correct thing to say, but Jaws of the World Wolf is lots of fun to use. It's one of those rare abilities that can dramatically change the game with a single roll (so is Njal's sweet Lord of Tempests ability). While totally unbalanced for tournament play (and particularly harsh for armies like Necrons and Tyranids), the power certainly spices up friendly games!" - BOLS http://www.blogcatalog.com/blog/bell-of-lost-souls/71607d124a069bbe0565c8c823bf81d4


Better?

Protip: this has already been brought up and debunked.

The people at BoLS have no clue.

WamasterScott - those aren't tags, they are marks

A quote is something like:

use the "[" and "]" to enclose the word "quote". When you are finished quoting someone or something "close" the tag using "[" "]" enclosing /quote

It then appears indented and obviously seperates it.

They are indeed fools over there who can't read rules correctly...

Really, you should only be reading BoLS for the news, not the tactics, or anything else really.

Warmasterscott,

Seriously Bols is the Maury Povich of 40K, let this be a warning to everyone else out there "YOU HAVE BEEN SHOCKED".

That article (and most that have been written buy "that guy", starts with an M not a G) are inflammatory and designed to create a pubic nuisance (the general public dose love that, me included from time to time), now that is just my opinion.

And I'm not condoning it either those articles do more harm than good but.........

Now someone insert the "Facts of Life" theme song.

Don't worry yalls pretty little heads.. I am not a huge fan of BoLS as a whole and I don't like the JotWW power. I have said on this site numerous times saying that people were worrying too much about this power but I was suprised people trying to to make it a "broken" ability, because then I would have to eat my words to others I debated with.

yea, just to let you know, it was NOT debunked, the people involved in the debate reached an Impasse, and those on one side of the arguement (these people above) all seemed to agree with each other that they agree with each other, and not with those who they could not convince that RAW even thought it "Is a thunderhammer" it does not follow rules for being a thunderhammer

Demogerg wrote:yea, just to let you know, it was NOT debunked, the people involved in the debate reached an Impasse, and those on one side of the arguement (these people above) all seemed to agree with each other that they agree with each other, and not with those who they could not convince that RAW even thought it "Is a thunderhammer" it does not follow rules for being a thunderhammer

And this lets us know which side you were on - being that you left out what is said to be the relevant part.

"is a thunder hammer that can be used as a ranged weapon with the following profile"

And the profile that it is used defines the ranged weapon. Like all ranged weapons.

I suppose JotWW has sparked debates kinda like GoI, literal vs interpretive.

kirsanth wrote:

"is a thunder hammer that can be used as a ranged weapon with the following profile"

the second half of the sentence does not invalidate the first half of the sentence.

The profile does.

That is the crux of the debate.

See page 27, "Additional Characteristics"

This again? Since we are mixing the "Ranged" and "CC" stats for the weapon. I assume then that all TH are Str10 on all models with AP1 as well? Or you could be applying it to only Arjac's hammer in which case it is STILL not AP1 in combat, because he is not throwing it he is swinging it.

I do not see this as an argument over rules interpretations. It is reading comprehension vs trying to bend rules to suit the combo.

Demogerg wrote:

kirsanth wrote:

"is a thunder hammer that can be used as a ranged weapon with the following profile"

the second half of the sentence does not invalidate the first half of the sentence.

Except the profile does.

I'll let you have I1 hits but only when you show rules how to strike at I1 in the shooting phase. Until you can do so I'll leave you to play the game by yourself.

What? You don;'t want to follow *all* the rules and just the ones of benefit to you? Wow, interesting take on rules.

Or, and heres the easy path: take your easter egg and throw it out the window.

You can all stop being offensive, I am not trying to start a flame war, I am merely stating the obvious

it is a thunderhammer

thunderhammer wounds reduce I to 1 untill the end of the next assault phase.

you are all stretching the rules to negate these 2 simple things that may or may not apply, depending on who you talk to.

Demogerg wrote:you are all stretching the rules to negate these 2 simple things that may or may not apply, depending on who you talk to.

Umm. . .

No?

It is a stretch to assume that a ranged weapon without Additional Characteristics should apply Additional Characteristics.

/shrug

Demogerg wrote:thunderhammer wounds reduce I to 1 untill the end of the next assault phase.

In Close Combat.

Also, nowhere does it say it is a thunderhammer on its ranged profile, so it isn't. End of Story.

This argument amazes me.

We already know that weapons can perform differently in the shooting phase and the assault phase. The most obvious is the plasma pistol. Its ranged profile is S7 ap2, but in close combat all it does is add an additional attack that could be of differing strength and ap ability depending on the weapon it is paired with. It also gets hot in shooting, but not in close combat. Why would a unique weapon with a clearly defined ranged profile not be treated the same way?

Arschbombe wrote:This argument amazes me.

We already know that weapons can perform differently in the shooting phase and the assault phase. The most obvious is the plasma pistol. Its ranged profile is S7 ap2, but in close combat all it does is add an additional attack that could be of differing strength and ap ability depending on the weapon it is paired with. It also gets hot in shooting, but not in close combat. Why would a unique weapon with a clearly defined ranged profile not be treated the same way?

Because they really want it to be true?

@Arschbombe

Because some people want to have their cake and eat it too?

Cheese cake!

I'S LIKE SOME BOUND CAKE!

(Inside joke )

Nom Nom Nom...
Hye Wiat thsi nto chesee!!!

herosson wrote:Warmasterscott,

Seriously Bols is the Maury Povich of 40K, let this be a warning to everyone else out there "YOU HAVE BEEN SHOCKED".

That article (and most that have been written buy "that guy", starts with an M not a G) are inflammatory and designed to create a pubic nuisance (the general public dose love that, me included from time to time), now that is just my opinion.

You misspelled "YTTH"