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Okay, so I just played a game against my friend, who is playing as Space Marines and using two predator tanks, with lascannons and heavy bolter sponsons.

I'm wondering, what can I do about this? I got devastated, my land raider exploded first turn.

What i'm thinking: Chaos Havocs or Obliterators, and Thousand Sun marines.

Does anyone have a particular strategy to deal with this?

Oblits and Havocs do the Trick.

Oblits first but AutoCannon/Lascannon Havocs wreck anything though they can be expensive.

Oblits. They shouldn't usually kill your LR first turn, btw. They will sometimes, but that's how it goes.

Darien13 wrote:Okay, so I just played a game against my friend, who is playing as Space Marines and using two predator tanks, with lascannons and heavy bolter sponsons.

I'm wondering, what can I do about this? I got devastated, my land raider exploded first turn.

What i'm thinking: Chaos Havocs or Obliterators, and Thousand Sun marines.

Does anyone have a particular strategy to deal with this?

What I'm wondering is: two predator tanks = tank spam???

9 Obliterators is the best way for Chaos to deal with mech. If you find yourself needing additional punch after that, add a termicide squad or two. 3 Terminators with combi-meltas at 105 points. I'm not really a fan of these guys but if they work for you then go for it.

Oh and BTW your friend got lucky. It's pretty rare that a couple Laspreds explode a Land Raider on turn 1.

Obliterators can silence guns of enemy tanks.
I'd stay away from Havocs as Obliterators are more flexible to use.

Also against mech armies the termicide squads come in really handy. Three combi-melta shots from up close should do a number on side/rear armor.

Don't use Havocs to take down tanks, unless your going 4 melta guns. Your best bet at long range with Havocs is Lascannons, and you're better kitting them out as transport killers- something 2 ML's and 2 AC's will do so much more reliably than oblits. Termicide squads are pretty much your number 1 anti-tank (av 13-14) killer. If you're feeling confident on you're termicides, add a powerfist to the three musketeers. The amount of times that at least 1 member of thetermicide squad lives to charge something else, often another tank, has convinced me its worth it. YMMV with the addition of a powerfist. But if you NEED to take down that tank there, termicide squad with meltas work wonders. Icons help too- Rhino's, land raiders, bike and raptor squads, should all have an icon to guide deepstrikers.

Hmmm now i wish my codex wasn't in my car, can a DP get a personal icon? i don't think so, but that might be handy in dawn of war style.

But, for anything AV 10-12, I'm yet to find something my Havoc squad cannot deal with either 2 AC 2 ML, or 2 AC ML LC. If you're playing a horde army, go AC/ML. Pop transport/frag missile the squads. The main reason i have the LC is because i was using a sub as i was modelling up my havocs, which was a Dark Angel in robes (plastic vetern kit), with a lascannon with a mad scope on it. He became known as Lascannon sniper for his mech/HQ standing alone sniping prowess last game he even penetrated a LR demolisher on front armour and immobilized it!

Okay, thanks for all the useful help, I think i'm going to get some obliterators, because even though they may not have as many guns as a havoc squad, they will be useful for more things than just killing tanks

Ok...Im not trying to be mean here, but this thread is full of bad advice.

1. First off...9 oblits? No, just no. Never.

2. Second, Oblits, along with all other long range fire, are terrible at taking down high AV tanks. Do you know the odds of blowing up a predator tank with 1 lascannon?

7%.

A full 225 point squad of oblits? 21%.

- But wait, you can stun the predator tanks quite easily (approx 1/3 shots will stun), so youre an idiot!

No. What youre basically doing is a tradeoff of a 225 points unit for what? A 130 pred? Cool, and then next turn you have to waste another 3 shots to stun it again, negating one major advantage of oblits (cant be stunned).

If your strategy relies on this, you might as well take a predator tank of your own with 3 lascannons (1 being twin linked, increasing the odds slightly) for 160 points (much less than 225). Predators are far, far more resilient to long range fire (Lascannon on Pred: 7% to destroy, on Oblit: ~40%)

- But wait, you can deepstrike oblits!

And then you have a 225 point unit, 1 of 3 possible long range fire supports, waiting in reserve for 2+ turns. If your opponent was half decent with protecting side armour, you would need to deepstrike fairly close to his board edge. Risky. Even if you make it, you're going to get smashed the next turn, and just suicided a 225 point unit for a 130 point one.

3. Someone mentioned Autocannon Havocs. I love them, but are you serious? They cant even penetrate a predator.




The answer, which was only mentioned once (EDIT: Twice) is: Terminators. Cheap, expendable, short range units that deepstrike in and take out those tanks. Otherwise ignore them (2 predators with only 1 lascannon each is more annoying than anything).

Night Lords wrote:Ok...Im not trying to be mean here, but this thread is full of bad advice.

Someone mentioned Autocannon Havocs. I love them, but are you serious? They cant even penetrate a predator.




The answer, which was only mentioned once (EDIT: Twice) is: Terminators. Cheap, expendable, short range units that deepstrike in and take out those tanks. Otherwise ignore them (2 predators with only 1 lascannon each is more annoying than anything).

i said use havocs to take down Transports. I'm not trying to be mean here, but when was a predator a transport and for taking down something with AV 13-14 (thats a pred last time i checked), use termicide with a powerfist, the powerfist comes with a YMMV warning


Now that I've grabbed my 'dex from my car, no you cannot get a icon on a DP. Would be useful but ah well.

I wasnt talking about you with the autocannon havocs. Someone said they can take down anything.

Night Lords wrote:I wasnt talking about you with the autocannon havocs. Someone said they can take down anything.

Technically they can if you want to pay out the buttocks for a squad that has low chance to hurt AV13+

4 Lascannons with havocs is a bad idea kids

Jihallah wrote:

Night Lords wrote: 4 Lascannons with havocs is a bad idea kids

ahhh i tried that once...took out a Land Raider in turn 1 . Thats a good option, but its a bit pricey....hey its better than all those oblits

How about chosen/plasma guns/melta
Infiltrate on the flanks, hit the rear/sides

Getting close to LR with those meltas is harder
So perhaps icon, big unit to take a few hits, deep strike those oblits, multimelta..

Im making up a Tz army now and thinking of exactly this question given benefits of mech

Pair of winged Daemon Princes are pretty decent at destroying dakka tanks with their 18" charge and ability to survive one-two turns of lascannon/demolisher cannon/railgun/autocannon shooting from such vehicles. It is much more risky when you try to open up some transport vehicles, depending on a unit riding inside.

Lascannon Havocs are overpriced. If you want/have to, run them with 4 Meltaguns in Rhino or 4 ML/AC for lower cost and better versatility. Termicide can do wonders or nothing. If you're lucky, go for it.

What I use vs. tank spam:

Daemon Princes. (MC status in combat)
Oblits. (Lascannons when far, MM in medium, TL Melta close, fist for random tanks that get too close)
Plague marines: Meltas, Fist, Krak Grenades.

I generally conga line and mulit charge, making the most of the fist and multiple krak grenades.

@Night Lords:

I agree, I would never suggest 9 Oblits...that's just too much.

I would like to specify, that it's not the oblits fault for the rules changes that neuters the effectiveness of lascannons...
Still they are an option when oblits are around.
The point of oblits is that you don't have to tailor and you get a swiss army knife in the army.

@OP...
I wouldn't call a couple dakka preds and several rhinos 'tank spam'... Play against IG tank spam...that is the spam.

Sanctjud wrote:What I use vs. tank spam:

Daemon Princes. (MC status in combat)
Oblits. (Lascannons when far, MM in medium, TL Melta close, fist for random tanks that get too close)
Plague marines: Meltas, Fist, Krak Grenades.

I generally conga line and mulit charge, making the most of the fist and multiple krak grenades.

@Night Lords:

I agree, I would never suggest 9 Oblits...that's just too much.

I would like to specify, that it's not the oblits fault for the rules changes that neuters the effectiveness of lascannons...
Still they are an option when oblits are around.
The point of oblits is that you don't have to tailor and you get a swiss army knife in the army.

@OP...
I wouldn't call a couple dakka preds and several rhinos 'tank spam'... Play against IG tank spam...that is the spam.

Agreed, especially on the congalina and multi charge point. So good for clearing a vehicle and its defenders at the same time

Uszaty wrote:Lascannon Havocs are overpriced. If you want/have to, run them with 4 Meltaguns in Rhino...

wow i never thought of that....ima try that. What kind of luck have you gotten with that?

The Fallen wrote:

Uszaty wrote:Lascannon Havocs are overpriced. If you want/have to, run them with 4 Meltaguns in Rhino...

wow i never thought of that....ima try that. What kind of luck have you gotten with that?

Moderate. Pretend you are running a IG Gun/tankline. There is a squad of Chaos marines with 4 meltaguns hooning up the field at you. What would you do

4 plasma guns is funny. Don't take it to a competition take it to that casual marine player and make sure you make "whAP!" noises for each dice roll

The downside of having a squad with 4 melta guns in the enemy line? they don't cap The upside to having 4 meltaguns in the enemy line that can't cap? They don't have to worry about it and can set about making use of those 40 points of guns

If you really like the idea, you can do it with Chosen too, the difference being you have infiltrate. I'd recommend a giving them a rhino and flanking. You're basically paying 3ppm for infiltrate, which some people say isn't worth it, others swear black and blue it is. its pretty much a YMMV thing.

Yeah, Chosens with 3-4 Meltaguns and 1-2 Flamers know how to deal some serious pain. And they are Elites, so you leave your Heavy slots for some much needed long range punishment. 4 Heavy Weapon Havocs could be nasty, though still worse than Devastators or Long Fangs. That's why every now and then you can go with Meltas in Rhino, simply because you can