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Here is my 1850 point list I've been using locally at my FLGS tourneys and also at my friend's house where we gather once a week to play as well. I have done very well with it (took 2nd in one tourney and won another) and would like to hear any critiques or comments....

HQs
CCS - 165 pts
plasmagun x4
Chimera w/HB hull and HB turret

CCS - 140 pts
flamer x4
Chimera w/HF hull and HF turret

TROOPS

Vet Squad - 130pts
meltagun x 3, shotguns x6
Sgt w/shotgun & CCW

Vet Squad - 130pts
meltagun x 3, shotguns x6
Sgt w/shotgun & CCW

Vet Squad - 200pts
GL x 3, shotguns x6
Sgt w/shotgun & CCW
Chimera w/HB hull and ML turret

FAST ATTACK

Valkyrie - 130 pts
MRPs, Multilaser in nose

Vendetta - 130 pts
3 TL Lascannons (standard loadout)

HEAVY SUPPORT

Leman Russ Squadron - 400 pts
Leman Russ w/HB hull
Punnisher w/HB hull and HB sponsons and Knight Commander Pask

Leman Russ Squadron - 245 pts
Executioner w/LC hull and PC sponsons

Leman Russ Squadron - 180 pts
Demolisher w/LC hull

Total Points : 2000
Total Model Count: 50


~Bart

The first thing that comes to mind is that you may want to drop the lascannon from the Demolisher to give your grenadier-veterans meltaguns instead.

Why HB hull on your first CCS' Chimera? They want to get into rapid-fire range anyway, so they could use an HF.

These are really minor complaints though, the list seems quite solid.

makr wrote:The first thing that comes to mind is that you may want to drop the lascannon from the Demolisher to give your grenadier-veterans meltaguns instead.

I have been playing around with the GLs on the vets recently to give me a little flexibility. I used to field them with plasmaguns and sometimes I would go with meltaguns, but I found that 3 melta-vet squads, plus a vendetta was a bit of overkill for anti-vehicle. I can either drop the GL vets on an objective early on and use them to hold until my vehicles and other units back them up, or I can put them into reserve and use them as more of a late game objective grabbing/assualting unit. Also the LC gives me a long-range weapon to fire while I am closing to short range for the main cannon. Also if I somehow lose my maingun I still have an effective backup weapon to fire off the tank instead of just a HB or HF.

makr wrote:Why HB hull on your first CCS' Chimera? They want to get into rapid-fire range anyway, so they could use an HF.

My CCS Chimera with the HB turret and HB hull I usually keep back and fire outta it for a turn or two until my opponent crosses par tof the board or drops units closer to me, then i move up and plasma the heck outta them. The 2 HBs allow me to stay in the back of the board and still put rounds down range and draw my enemy closer to me. I tend to use the plasmagunns inside it as somewhat of a reactionary force to handle DS'ing SMs and other pop-up type enemies and it has worked to good effect so far. I understand your thinking though, and may try that tactic...It just hasn't been my playstyle so far.

makr wrote:These are really minor complaints though, the list seems quite solid.

I appreciate the comments and suggestions/criticisms. Thats why i put the list out there, for other players to give me their opinions. Anyone else have some constructive suggestions/observations?

~Bart

It is a pretty solid list, but I have the following suggestions:

I think the best choice for a chimera that will be moving toward the enemy is ML/HF, hands down. No point to 2 HFs, you can't fire both if you move (and you'll never be in flamer range from a stationary position)

Why would you take a 2nd CCS instead of another vet squad? Similar points, less bodies, not scoring (one more weapon and orders are useful in the right circumstances, but I think the opportunity cost is too high) You'd benefit from another scoring unit IMO.

I'm not a fan of the paskpunisher/LRBT squadron. I think the punisher is just massively overrated for its points. If you want to effectively kill infantry, I think eradicators or LRBTs are the way to go, and pask is not necessary. Obviously you like it as part of your list, but you could experiment a bit with 2 eradicators, 2 LRBTs, one of each, etc. I think those would give you similar effect for less points.

Exec - fine if you like your tanks that expensive,

Demolisher - why not take the LC off the exec and give the demolisher melta sponsons instead of a LC? I think they're a lot more effective, and the range isn't an issue on a demolisher.

I would say to try and find the points to fit in two heavy bolters. One in your hq squad that sits back and the other in your vet GL squad. That way you can sling some fire power to match the weaponry on your tanks?

Have you tried the hull heavy flamer for your dem tank. It just seems that if anybody is going after your tanks, its best to have a hull heavy flamer to roast them onces they drop out of there transport.

OK, thanks for the imput, will reply more indepth later tonight.....wife is yellin at me to take her out for dinner, and I'm all too familiar with the chain-of-command around this household once I step out of the computer/gaming room. LOL.

~Bart

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:It is a pretty solid list, but I have the following suggestions:

I think the best choice for a chimera that will be moving toward the enemy is ML/HF, hands down. No point to 2 HFs, you can't fire both if you move (and you'll never be in flamer range from a stationary position)

Well, I have the dual HF combo for 2 reasons. First, because it has worked really well for me in several games. Can't explain it, other than I have actually gotten to use both HF in the same round in more than one game. I know statisticly this has to be the exception to the rule, but its the way its worked out. And second, I just got the damn turret in from Forgeworld a week ago and I hate the idea of having a model I just bought and not using it. LOL. Maybe I will go with a HF turret and a HB in the hull on that Chimera.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:Why would you take a 2nd CCS instead of another vet squad? Similar points, less bodies, not scoring (one more weapon and orders are useful in the right circumstances, but I think the opportunity cost is too high) You'd benefit from another scoring unit IMO.

For exactly the reasons you stated. With a CCS I get an extra special weapon, and the added benefits of issuing orders and a lower cost. I see your point about an additional scoring unit, but I'd have to lose some other gear somewhere else to make it work, and I'm not sure I have much left to trim.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:I'm not a fan of the paskpunisher/LRBT squadron. I think the punisher is just massively overrated for its points. If you want to effectively kill infantry, I think eradicators or LRBTs are the way to go, and pask is not necessary. Obviously you like it as part of your list, but you could experiment a bit with 2 eradicators, 2 LRBTs, one of each, etc. I think those would give you similar effect for less points.

I've had very good experiences so far with Pask in a Punisher with HBs in hull and sponsons. I know its extremely pricey, but with a vanilla Russ as an added damage shield, he just dishes out a ton of hurt, despite the crappy AP on the Punisher main gun. besides, I scratchbuilt a Punisher cannon that looks sweet and its hard to just shelve it. That and the fact that he took out not one but 2 carnifexes for me in a game against the bugs, I've just fell in love with the tough old bastard and its hard to tthink about giving him up. but I will honestly think about it some more and try to put my emotions aside.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:Exec - fine if you like your tanks that expensive,

What's not to love about 3 termie killin blasts per turn.
Well yeah, the price, but lets move on.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:Demolisher - why not take the LC off the exec and give the demolisher melta sponsons instead of a LC? I think they're a lot more effective, and the range isn't an issue on a demolisher.

Again I hear ya, but I hate to have a tank just popping smoke first turn. With the LC I can still move first turn to close with the enemy and fire off the LC. I just feel like popping smoke is for cowards and Chimeras. And you are absolutely right, the Multi-meltas would work well rangewise with the main gun on the Demolisher, it's just that whole "Not shooting with my tank for a turn" when its not becuase of a shaken/stunned result that just rubs me the wrong way. I'll think on it some more though.

Tarval wrote:I would say to try and find the points to fit in two heavy bolters. One in your hq squad that sits back and the other in your vet GL squad. That way you can sling some fire power to match the weaponry on your tanks?

My CCS that generally hangs back also pulls anti-drop or infiltrate/outflank duty as well, so the HB would not be effective if I have to move to cover that threat. Also the GL-vet squad is also a late game objective grabber/assault force especially if my opponent gets first turn, so again..the HB team would be moving and not effective. If I got the first turn then yes, it would be of benefit, but then again, most opponents will close with you by turn 2 or 3 at the latest so I would get one maybe 2 turns max shooting out of them. But I appreciate the suggestions.

Tarval wrote:Have you tried the hull heavy flamer for your dem tank. It just seems that if anybody is going after your tanks, its best to have a hull heavy flamer to roast them onces they drop out of there transport.

Again, I see what you are saying, and once I get in real close it would be effective, but I dont want my tanks in THAT close. If your tank is close enough to use a HF in the hull, it's just one turn away from a close assault death in most games. (And yes I have Chimeras with hull HFs but they are transports, not tanks.) Plus if I get hit and lose my main gun, I still have a long-range weapon that can insta-kill some units, take on vehicles, and also put wounds on MCs. Also see my above remark about my personal dislike of having a tank that doesnt have range to shoot because all its weapons are close range only. Also the LC still synergizes with the Demolisher Cannon. I just think an all close range tank just goes against everything in my playstyle/being. LOL.



Actually we get together at my friends house tonight for some 40k, maybe I'll try a few of the suggestions and see how they work. We have a wide variety of players - 2 oks (1 with lots of trucks and battlewagons, 1 with lots of bikers and stormboyz), 1 CSM (nurgle), 1 Necron, 1 SM (DP list) and another SM (biker list). And once in a blue moon another guy or two comes who play either Tau or Tyranids and on occasion Eldar, so I like to have an all-comers list.

~Bart

OK, last night's game is going to be considered an aberration and not included in my playtest concerns. I played an ork player with 3 units of stormboyzs, a nob biker, i think 4 truks with boyz on each and a wartrack with a mek-boy and accompanying unit that had a KFF, and a unit of lootas that hung back and blazed away. I don't know what I did to offend the Emporer so badly, or what vile rituals to Gork and Mork that Mekboy did.....but I have NEVER, NEVER, EVER seen someone make sooooo damn many KFF saves in a row. And on the rare occasion that something got through it took 2 turns to knock his vehicle out, then 1 1/2 more turns of shooting to finally wipe him out. By then he had crossed completely into my lines and then close assaulted the heck outta me (we had Spearhead deployment). Honestly, I coulda had 2000+ points and it wouldnt have mattered the way he rolled (and the terrible amount of low rolls I had. The 2 highlites of the night were once again PASK in the Punisher with HB sponsons was the MVP on my losing side by forcing his dismounted mekboy unit to make so many saves that he finally fell to the onslaught, and also one of my vet units in an immobilzed valkeryie got out and fired all 3 meltaguns at the nob biker to no affect, but the remaining 6 vets and the Sergeant with shotguns actually killed him. You shoulda heard my opponent complaining about it, and this was after he exploded 4 of my tanks and my main CCS unit's chimera. Ahhhh, its the little moments I'll saver.

So next Monday I'll play again and hopefully have some more decent aka average dice rolls and better evaluate this list.

I'm also open to anymore constructive C&C.

~Bart