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I've been working on a SM Biker/Mech army, and I'm not sure how to go about supporting them at 1850. My biggest issues have been fitting in long-range support and CC ability. What are the best ways to get this? TH/SS Termies in LRs, Dreadnoughts, Command Squad on Bikes, Preds, more Speeders, etc?

My core list includes

Bike Captain w/ Relic Blade
2 Full Bike Squads with MGx2, MM, and PF
Tactical Squad with Rhino
Landspeeder Squadron with MM/HFx2

Shrike with ten assault termies with TH/SS and Dakka predators.

Im confused why would you put shrike in with assault terminators? Is there some special rule he gets that they would benefit from?

Only his every marine with Combat tactics gets fleet instead, and any unit he is coupled with gains infiltrate. I can see the infiltrating, fleeting termies causing a lot of fear to different armies.

Well...there are plenty of negative issues with Shrike + termies.

I say...look for counter attackers, not units that are supposed to primarily assault the enemy.

Else, load up on more shooting and more bikes.
Techmarines on bikes w/ harness and power weapon is an option to augment a bike squad to a decent counter assaulter.

There is also the Command Squad on bikes bandwagon.

I can see the use of TH/SS termies, but I would not be usng Shrike with them.

While Shrike has his uses, I don't know if he really helps in a Bike list as they don't benefit from Fleet.

I've used TH/SS Termies in a LRC in the past (but at 2000 points +) to provide CC ability and a nice mobile LOS block to protect the bikes. It eats up more points than the Command Squad option, though. I've also ran a TDA Libby with SS, Nullzone, and Vortex with the Terminators to help keep Lash and Jaws in check. However, I think the points spent on him might be better spent elsewhere.

Agree with sanctjud. Techmarine on Bike with Harness and power weapon adds alot of attacks to the Bike squad and is relatively cheap (125 points). Add in two Landspeeder Typhoons (180) and you've added some counter-punch and 4 ML shots for 305 points. Not a bad upgrade to the list.

Command squad on bikes.
Devastators.
Whirlwinds.

Get some Whirlwinds to clear a path for the bikes and destroy any enemy artillery.

The issue I have with TH/SS in a LR(R)(C) is that it's eggs in a basket.

Low Armor Saturation.
Low Model Count.

Coupled together it's a big hit or miss item...expensive at that. But they don't add that much to the list as a whole.
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I agree that a hood is pretty useful against stuff like Jaws and Lash, but it just seems we don’t have enough HQ slots…
Captain/Khan is required…which means they are down to 1 additional HQ.
Taking a Hood loses out on a Chappy, and vice versa.
I don’t consider taking a Chappy to be superior to a Libby, but if you are running at higher points a fearless biker squad with some additional hitting power ( Techmarines and Khan say)…then a chappy only makes that bunker more reliable….at the cost of allowing lash and jaws through.

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Now let me balance out the Techmarine option.
It’s relatively cheap for an IC, BUT
-He only has one wound.
-He can be picked out in combat.
-He is still very expensive.

What you do get is the equivalent of a tactical squad in terms of offensive punch, wrapped up in a biker squad making it twice as lethal at short range shooting and somewhat in combat.

I like Typhoons as well, but are pretty pricey.
Attack Bike squadrons in the FA have been gold for me…I never leave home without 9 of them there, and 3 more for my Biker squads.

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Command squad on bikes are an option, but they are not my cup of tea.
Though the do combat well, they are pricy for 5 members, coupled with the fact that blinging them out gets more pricey.
I do suggest sprinkling some upgrades, but that just means they are bait for certain types of weapons to deal with.

In addition, they ‘can’ do counter attack, but they seem more like primary assaulters (when geared for it, which also means points intensive).

Devs are (IMO) a huge no in a biker list.
The idea is to be (at the very least) mobile and able to redeploy.
Having a static element can be viewed as a good thing, but it doesn’t score and it somewhat doesn’t fit theme, 2 Typhoons would bet a better fit with fluff and still have 4 missiles coming out.

WW are mixed bag. I’ve been suggest Dakka Preds many times, and though they are decent at what they do for the cost, they’ve never appealed to me aesthetically.

I think a Vindi would clear the path better than a WW, but the vindi has it’s own problems, mainly wide side armor, low armor saturation, and needing to approach

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I will be frank.
I have a 1500 biker list.

I’ve spent 7+ months trying to expand out to 1750/1850/2000…… I still haven’t found a combination I’m happy with.
1500 (at least for me) seem like the sweet spot for my biker list.

Yeah... I found that my Bikers seem to do better at 2000+ when I can give them plenty of support.

Dont' tke ten man squads for one there isn't any point take 5 to 6 man squads that way you can get more special weapons and sgts with powerfist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh here is my bike list

Space Marine Captain Bike / relic blade meltbombs
Space Marine Librarian w/ Bike ; vortex , nullzone

Space Marine Command Squad w/ 2 Plasma guns, 1 powerfist ; Champion

Troops
6 man two plasma . powerweapon
6 man two plasma powerweapon

4 man + Attackbike ; 2 melta , Powerfist ;
4 Man + attack bike ; melta , powerfist

Fast Attack
5 Man Scout w/ 3 Astartes , powerfist ; meltbombs
Land Speeder HF , Multmelta
Landspeeder H.f. Multimelta


That's it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and if you want mechanized do this

Space Marine Captain on bike RelicBlade
Commandsquad w/ 2 plasma , champion , powerfist

master of the forge w/ bike

Elite
Dreadnought
Dreadnought
Dreadnought
Troop

6 man / 2 x plasma / PW
6 man / 2 x Plasma / PW
5 man w/ melta, melta, ab , pf
5 man w/ melta melta ab , pf

H. support
Dreadnought
Dreadnought

@Hollismason.
I would guide than goad.
There are pros and cons to using full squads are more squads.
It’s an issue of preference.

Small squads do mean more special weapons, but that means you have more units meaning: more morale checks early on, higher kill points and softer as well, low model count squads means allocation can end up killing something important.

Large squad have combat squads as an option, large meaty squads are decent bunkers for ICs, the large footprint can be both good and bad, but with a biker base it can be abused.

I wouldn’t recommend too many powerfists on sgts in small squads though. Less body bags and ups their cost.

So…there are pros and cons, it would be nice to have a more holistic view of the subject…instead of…. “RRARRGGHHH DO THIS RRHRERAAHGHHG.” Obviously that’s not you, but I know of other posters (in Dakka, Warseer, and 40KO) who do the same, but only worse.

Your list:
How many points is it…? I’m guessing 1680…
Captain is ok.
Libby is meh. I wouldn’t go with vortex, but with might. Roll a boxcar and say bye to the libby.

Command squad: on bikes right? Meh. A champion seems a bit excessive.
Plasma Bikers: meh, but no attack bike: the best buys in the whole codex?

Why the power weapon? You get only 2 Attacks, you don’t get +1 for 2 combat weapons because he only has a power weapon. Pay the same price for getting less.
Scout bikers are meh.
Speeders are meh as well.

Mech list:
Mech generally means troops in transports…Mechanized…hence the Mech.
Your ‘mech’ is referring to…….Battletech??
That’s sort of funny how that could mean two different things…but that happens

It might get you away from all bikers, but you could toss in a Plasma Wagon for resilience and objective holding:

Tactical x 10 Plasma Cannon, Plasmagun, Plasma Pistol, Rhino

235 pts

Just sit them on your home objective, or hull down somewhere, and unload plasma from the firing points.

It's not hard to glance and stun or shake the rhino, then no more long range shooting for them.

But yes, there are good reasons to having a tactical in a rhino...but I feel having 2-3 of such squads is the minimum to run at if you want Tacs in rhinos.

It's all about play style.

Rhinos being glanced is a play style? Or that having low armor saturation, in terms of rhinos?

I like using vindicators with Space Marine bike armies as if needed you can turbo boost and screen your Vindicators they can move and fire their Ordinance as well.


I dunno I just like it.

'Screening' with bikers can be a bit iffy when it involves vehicles because the 50% rule.

If your gaming group has buildings or higher terrain, it may be a moot point.

I've tried a pair of Vindi's at 1750, sort of meh...low armor saturation, wide side armor, unable to redeploy as quickly as bikers.

Vindi's do have many desirable attributes though: cheap, strong low ap template that bikers don't often get. It can hide out in reserves and come on and hit anything in essentially 30" of one's board edge.

But I'm not sure they balance the cons/pros too well. They prob. would be better in a more varied army list rather than a pure biker list IMO.