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I was thinking about the infiltrate rule, and I decided to make a list that looks something like this. It turned out incredibly balanced I think, for a 1000 point game at least

HQ- Daemon Prince Wings
+ Mark of Khorne 140

TRP - Khorne Berzerkers x 5 105

TRP - Khorne Berzerkers x 5 105

HVY - Land Raider Extra Armor 235

ELT - Chaos Terminators x 5
+Champion(10) Lightning Claws
+Mark of Khorne 200

ELT - Chosen CSM x 5
+5 Meltaguns 140

HVY - Obliterator Cult x 1 75


Well I know it's a little skimpy on troops, but what troops I have enjoy a LR. I might have had the rules off a little, but infiltrate can start withen 12 inchs of enemy units (out of sight) and 18 inches of enemy units (In plain sight) So I guess they're my kill squad. This seemed to field a lot of different options with the terminators and LR still being large hard to defeat selections. I don't know, I like it but what do the dakka tribe think?

Hmmm not sure how the list revolves around infiltrate as you only have one unit which can do it, the chosen, which is a small unit and needs to be larger.

Does a daemon prince need a extra attack? Some better marks out there than MoK.

5 berzerkers will get battered in no time. Thats 10 troops you have, you won't win objective games easily. Also appears they're on foot as well as only one land raider, which will get picked off as its on its own and a primary target.

Drop the champion on the terminators and save some points. Give them some combi weapons too to be a threat.

As mentioned, chosen need to be a bigger unit. I see a infiltrating unit with 5 meltaguns I will let them have it. Your main anti tank unit is then dust.

One obliterator, you need more. I would drop this unit and get transports for the berzerkers. Foot slogging assault troops are never a good thing.

Dp is ok.

Zerkers, more bodies.
Troops are the back bone of the army.

LR+Crew: hit or miss at 1000.
Termies: too much gear at 1000.
No fist?

Single oblist is really meh.
Chosen, not enough bodies. In addition, infiltrating rules are very strict.
If you are in LoS, that means 18” which means the meltas are out of range.
If you are not in LoS that means 12” which means the mletas are out of 2D6 range vs. tanks.

Hello, just a quick reminder : if users could please refrain from posting individual points costs for weapons, upgrades etc etc.

ta.

Alright I thought the squad of five with their melta's would bum rush/suicide something. But I rethought the list a little. The survivability of Mark of Tzeentch and ability to use psyker powers on my prince seems useful, also Tzeentch is my favorite god along with Khorne



Daemon Prince:
+Mark of Tzeentch
+Bolt of Change :155

Khorne Berzerkers x 8
+Champion :183

Land Raider
+Extra Armor
+Havok Launcher :250

Chaos Space Marines x 8
+Mark of Khorne
+Champion
+Rhino :200

Greater Daemon :100

Predator
+Sponson Heavy Bolters
+Havok Launcher :115


Total: 1003

DP is meh, BoC is a pretty meh power, not even decent IMO.
The DP should be hiding his way behind the LR out of Line of Sight.
Which limits the usefulness of a ranged weapon and MoT as it’s only of great use in combat with the whole cover save system.

I suggest you concentrate on having the Greater Daemon come out of the CSM Squad.
Zerkers ‘need’ a power weapon or powerfist.
Esp. if they are riding in a LR. The havoc launcher is most likely wasted points.

CSM no Special weapon? That is prob. the number 1 reason to go with them over Zerkers.

I think the GD is not doing the list any good.
Pred: meh.

I find MoN works better. See prince is going to get gunned down, so small arms fire like bolters will have a harder job scoring wounds on a T6 monster. Oh, S7 weapons now wound on 3+ not 2+ and also matches tyranids in toughness too.

Prince needs wings. Should be in combat and needs to get there a.s.a.p. A foot slogging prince is a dead prince.

Botl of change I really see being for anti vehicle - its ap1 isn't it? Doombolt is cheaper and I think has longer range, and ap3. Throw in warptime though, really good power which can re-roll to hit and to wound. This includes the doombolt and the power can be cast in the opponents phase too during combat

Really I don't think your getting enough out your prince.

Drop the greater daemon, predator and the extras on the land raider. Drop the rhino too. Then get another land raider.

The chaos marines inside can assault out, you might have enough to upgrade them to berzerkers too. You have anti tank still and two land raiders in 1,000 is fearsome!

Oh, and your prince has plenty of cover too as can hide behind the land raiders.

Oh man, I didn't see he didn't have wings.
That is a no-brainer choice...IMO it should be mandatory.

I think a 2 raider list at 1000 is more of a one trick pony though. There is only win big and lose big with that. In addition, it's doesn't really highlight the more unique units in the CSM army list.

You know what bud, I didn't either! lol. And is def a no brainer!

It is. But its nasty. And serves better with berzekers. Small number I admit, but perhaps worth a try.

At the very least if you like the list you have, get rid of the havoc launcher and extra armor off from the land raider. That gives 30 points. If you can scrape together 5 more points then you can upgrade your predator with a twinlinked lascannon, or add more troops. Havoc launcher is a waste of points and extra armor is meh. If you dont wanna take off extra armor, then take off the havoc launcher on the predator.

Yeah, that was all in the haze of last night. I see some fatal flaws in it too. So you all admit the daemon HAS to have wings? In which case I really just wanna save points and give him MoK+Wings for only 30 points. 140 total. That's a pretty cheap B.A. HQ I think....This'll be my first full manned army I've ever had. So I'm really hoping to stick with the Khorne theme. Tzeentch goes well with khorne theme wise. I might be okay with some papa nurgle stuff, but definitely NO Slaanesh!

HQ Daemon Prince
+Wings, MoK :140

TRP x10 Khorne
+SC w/ PF :250

TRP x10 CSM
+Rhino w/ extra armor
+Missile Launcher and Meltagun
OR
+Lascannon :220

HVY Land Raider
+Extra Armor :235

HVY x2 Obliterator Cult
OR
HVY Predator
+TL Lascannon, SS Heavy Bolters
(Also add two combi weapons to vehicles)


Either of those last two heavy choices will finish me with about 150 points. I don't know what else to use the 150 on? Havocs? I guess either of those two heavy choices would fulfill a lot of need. What do you guys think now? This looks more like my original list from 2 weeks ago Too much extra armor? I want to drop both extra armor maybe and give the CSM Mark of Khorne, that's also a possibility.

Unless you are playing Khorne, drop the mark of Khorne on your prince and give him Warptime instead. -15

CSM - Youve added this up wrong. Youre at 130 with missle & melta/135 with lascannon. Need to have x2 meltas. CSM do not use heavy weapons, that is for regular space marines. Get rid of extra armour on the rhino. You also want icon of chaos glory. Total: 215

No need for extra armour on the LR, especially at 1000 points in my opinion.

You also added up the totals wrong. Youre already just under 1000.

New list:

DP..................................155
-Warptime

Berzerkers x10.................250
-Skull Champ
-Fist

CSM x10..........................215
-x2 meltas
-Icon of Chaos Glory
-Rhino

Landraider........................220


Obliterators x2...................150

Total = 990

Doesn't the icon of Chaos Glory just allow you to reroll failed morale tests? Also if your CSM troop involves 10 units, you can add Autocannon, heavy bolter, missile launcher, lascannon. All those things +more, but only if you have fielded 10 of them.

I agree completely with the warptime, it's 15 more points, but what's an extra attack compared to rerolling wounds and hits? Warptime is a go.

So you pick Obliterators over the 130 point Autocannon, Lascannon predator? If I went with that, it frees up 20 more points for me.

IoCG makes sure the CSM stay put.
Ld9/10 is really not 'all that'.

IMO, all CSM squads should be 10.
That second special weapon makes them 4 times as better at their job.

I don't think hvy weapons should be considered too often. They are Chaos Space Marines, not tactical squads.

The thing with oblits is, they give you flexibility for that 20 points. But, if you don't need it, go with the pred.
I think preds are a lot less forgiving at lower points.

Oblits can actually hide, or claim cover easily. In addition are a bit more flexible in deployment.

Koski wrote:Doesn't the icon of Chaos Glory just allow you to reroll failed morale tests? Also if your CSM troop involves 10 units, you can add Autocannon, heavy bolter, missile launcher, lascannon. All those things +more, but only if you have fielded 10 of them.

I agree completely with the warptime, it's 15 more points, but what's an extra attack compared to rerolling wounds and hits? Warptime is a go.

So you pick Obliterators over the 130 point Autocannon, Lascannon predator? If I went with that, it frees up 20 more points for me.

-I know they can use heavy weapons, what Im saying is you shouldnt. Chaos is more assault heavy than SMs.

-DP odds:

Khorne 5 attacks, 3.35 hit, 2.8 killed.
Warptime 4 attacks, 3.56 hit, 3.39 killed.

On the charge, warptime is even better. Against vehicles that have moved, warptime is also better.

-I normally use 2 Lascannon/Autocannon preds. However, in this case, you dont have enough units with meltas/blasts/#of shots, and their flexibility in much more advantageous. If you were to drop the landraider, I think you could work the pred in with something else (even if its more troops), but as is with only 1 heavy support (LR isnt really shooty), those oblits need to cover every type of shooting by themselves

What do you think about Vindicators? The only reason I was thinking about giving the CSM heavy weaponry is because (I might have this wrong) But as long as they're in a rhino, one member of the squad can fire from the one fire point right? And it doesn't count as open topped because he's wearing power armor. So essentially wouldn't it be basically adding an extra weapon to my rhino?

But only if the rhino doesn't move.
If you move 6" only a special weapon can fire, and it counts as moving.

So static CSM are a bit wasted as their true potential is short range fire-fights and combat.

Vindi's have their charm, and their fat ass side armor.

Alright, I understand the rhino rule with fire ports. so Meltaguns are the way to go since they're assault 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah vindicators seem okay, nice giant gun, only one though. and the huge side armor...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Again, I know it's a personal pref usually. But what about Defilers with they're 72 inch range cannon, they come with quite a lot of weaponry, CC ability, and side armor.

They shift the front armor to the side....which is good, and bad as (although it should be average) AV 12 is pretty much.

It's a huge model, so getting cover saves is generally not a frequent thing.

In addition, one pays for alot of weapons on it, but it only ever wants to use one.
If you maximize the long range, the combat ability is wasted. If it advances, it means it's open to more anti-tank weaponry.
In combat, behing hit on 3's by MEQ's is not fun.

ohh yeah, they are huge....Well I suppose that settles it. I can't think of whatever else is possible. What would you guys use if you were playing your CSM in a thousand point battle?

Sadly, I don't.

But I'll write a 7 second list...

DP/wings.
8 Plague marines, fist, 2 meltas, rhino.
8 Plague marines, fist, 2 meltas, rhino.
2 Oblits.
2 Oblits.

Roughly 988...something like that.
I generally don't take anything under 1500 seriously...

At 1000 you can fit 3 MCs in your list and two Havoc squads for covering fire. This ruins most peoples day at this low a points level Rhinos have two firing points as per Errata, fyi

Looking at the lists you're making, I think you'd be happier with a Defiler or 2, starting towards competetive if you threw a vindi in.

As stated, you're rhino's are moving towards the enemy, so don't worry about a single heavy weap. on a CSM squad. Put bezerkers in a landraider, with a lord if you want, straight up the field with a pair of rhinos (if you can afford it, depends on points) with CSM behind the raider. Defilers walk up shooting pie plates. 2-3 termicide squads teleport in to wreck some vehicles. DP (if you didn't grab a lord) flies about going "look at me!" and cracking skulls with warptime/dieing horribly to a mass of AT fire that isn't hitting your rhinos. Once you're in their face, they are not going to like it. You've got CSM on your side no one likes you within 12"


well ok somethings will like you in that range but generally, no army is liking 10 marines with 2 meltas and a powerfist, and a icon to guide terminators, up in their lines.


-edit-Cannerus im looking at the FAQ it says one port usable by two people, is this what you mean? I'm hoping so...

Once last piece of advice for some stuff I'm wondering. I am just making a starter army. And I am hoping whatever army I'm making here would be the base for my 1500 or 2000 point armys in the future if I was to make them. I don't think there's any issues with these though.

2x LR
2x 10 man CSM w/ 2 melta & Champ w/ fist
Winged Khornate DP
----------------------------
1000 pts (according to army builder 3.1)


have fun