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This came up in a recent game and I was curious. Can a vehicle pivot in the shooting phase for free and then fire its guns? A lot of people at my FLGS think you can. I played a game under the same impression and was told otherwise. I flipped through the book and wasn't entirely sure (me being new and all). The book makes mention that 'pivoting on the spot doesn't count as movement'. However I couldn't find anything that says you can actually spin around for free DURING the shooting phase. Any clarification or page numbers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

I'm pretty sure that a vehicle can only pivot in the movement phase, and can then fire all of it's weapons. In friendly games, probably okay to do the pivot in the shooting phase, but during any sort of tourney, pivoting must be done during movement.

From the BRB page 57:

Pivoting on the spot alone does not count as moving, so a vehicle that only pivots in the Movement phase counts as stationary (however, immobilised vehicles may not even pivot).

And from page 58:

Vehicles that remained stationary may fire all of their weapons (remember that pivoting on the spot does not count as moving).

I would say that pivoting in the shooting phase is disallowed, even in friendly games. Remember that movement decides which vehicle facing can be targetted by the opponent, so it makes a great deal of difference.

Pivoting on the spot may not count as movement, but is movement nonetheless.

target A is extreme angle to the left, target b is directly in front of leman russ, leman russ during movement phase pivots towards A to fire all weapons then in shooting phase at A, B would then be free to shoot at the weaker side armor of the Leman russ, as lukus said pivoting can only be done in movement phase.

Yes, pivoting for normal vehicles can only be done duringe the movement phase, however there is an exception.
Walkers are specifically allowed to pivot in the shooting phase, which is covered in the rules for walkers.

The only vehicles that may pivot in the shooting phase are walkers.

This is a hold over from 4th ed. In that edition of the game if the vehicle did not move in the movement phase, it was allowed to pivot in the shooting phase.

Tell the people at your gamestore that 5th ed has been out for a good long while, so it might be time to read the rulebook.

agreed. turrets can turn however they want and you can angle sponson weapons to hit but no pivoting in the shooting phase. that being said, i'd allow it if the person hadn't fired much that turn in the same class as the vehicle. i.e. if they shot with a guard squad with no real upgrades and then remembered they had to pivot. once they shoot a big gun at a target i reasonably would consider a priority for the tank in question, i'd say no.

Agree with Willy. Though I'd try to find a polite way to phrase the suggestion.

Mannahnin wrote:Agree with Willy. Though I'd try to find a polite way to phrase the suggestion.

I suggest a Pillowcase with Bricks in it.

Gets the message across almost as well as a nailboard.

Or a punch to the face!

While technically correct, that fact that pivoting cannot be done in the Shooting phase makes no practical difference. You can pivot in the end of the movement phase. . . which comes right before the shooting phase. So really, whatever you want to call it, you can pivot after moving but before shooting, yes.

Berzerker: there is a difference. In 4th ed, you could pivot the vehicle after everything else has shot (and perhaps neutralised any threats in your frontal armour quadrant) to make sure the enemy can't get any side shots. Or, if you have any hull-mounted weapons, you could pivot so that it's aimed at the best possible target during the shooting phase.

Now, you have to evaluate your targets and threats more during the movement phase and pivot accordingly.

Most of the time I don't really care if the opponent pivots a vehicle during the shooting phase. After the first time, I usually politely remind them that it should only be done in the movement phase, and in subsequent movement phases I try to remind them to pivot their vehicles then rather in the shooting phase.

Thanks guys. I'll try the pillow case with bricks to get my point across

I have to echo that there is a pretty big difference. If you can't pivot in the shooting phase, you have to be more careful about setting up your targets ahead of time. I see lots of players "fudge" this as well.

Exactly. It's funny for me to go back to this way, as it was the same in 3rd. So I got used to people being allowed to do it in 4th, and now they've forbidden it again.

I never played 3rd edition.
Be that as it may, even the worse weapon traverse "hull mounted=45 degrees" is sufficient to draw a bead on an enemy.
If you can't 'draw a bead' with that kind of fire arc, you shouldn't be a gunner!
In game play, it's never been an issue. I just make sure that I have LOS to my intended target during the movement phase.
The reason no pivoting is allowed in the shooting phase is to prevent someone from firing at a unit, and then turn their highest AV towards the biggest threat.
If shooting at a choice target means I have to expose my rear armor to a threat, well, that's why it's war and not peace!

Ah. I was not aware that people trying to pivot AFTER shooting was an issue. I never even had a question about it. . . I just assumed that once you started firing, moving/pivoting time was over.

But if you allowed a vehicle to pivot in the shooting phase, and did not specify before or after shooting, it could certainly shoot and then pivot.

By making all pivot moves occur in the Movement phase, it eliminates this problem completely.

BeRzErKeR wrote:While technically correct, that fact that pivoting cannot be done in the Shooting phase makes no practical difference. You can pivot in the end of the movement phase. . . which comes right before the shooting phase. So really, whatever you want to call it, you can pivot after moving but before shooting, yes.

Well, if you have done your movements and started shooting with another unit, it's too late to pivot the tank, though.

So the morale of the story is.. pivot during movement phase, fire all of your guns at once. And explode into space.