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updated list as of 12/11/09-

HQ- Captain (relic blade + stormshield, bike) - 180 pts
HQ- Librarian (Might + Null Zone, bike) - 135 pts

HQ- Command squad on bikes (power sword, champion) - 235 pts

Troops- 10 man bike squad (2x flamer, heavy bolter) - 265 pts
Troops- 10 man bike squad (2x plasma, multimelta) - 295 pts
Troops- 10 man bike squad (2x melta, multimelta) - 285 pts

Fast- 10 man scout bike squad (2x grenade launchers, fist) - 255 pts
Fast- 2 attack bikes (multimeltas)
Fast- 2 attack bikes (multimeltas)


I dropped the effectiveness of the command squad, now its just an anti-meq unit. I don't think 235 points for it is that bad though, considering they have the durability of terminators. they don't pack the punch, but they hit hard.

I also dropped the fist off my biker squad, because it shouldn't be in hand to hand anyway, and if it is, it will probably have a librarian or a captain attached to it for extra power in hand to hand.

so... I think this is probably enough anti-tank in the form of 6 multimelta attack bikes, and 2 multimeltas from the MM squad. do you think i'd need more? between that and krak grenades, I should be fine I think.

bump... started buying bikers for list 1. I have a total of 11 bikers and 4 attack bikers.

List one looks like it would ahve trouble with the top armies at tournaments, crushers would eat your army alive, lash would ruin your day, nob bikers is juse a better bike army, mech eldar laughs at you all day, and guard could easily blast most of your army off the table in one turn and even 12 melta guns wont cut it if only spread out throughout 4 squads.

I'm just saying if you want a tournament winning marine list this particular biker list wont cut it IMO.

One Command squad will do, two is just silly. After turn three there will be nothing left for you too kill.

Make the Bike squads eight man and drop the captain.

Now add speeders, attack Bikes, predators etc.

after turn 3, if there is nothing left to kill, isn't that a victory? I'm not making this list to have fun. I want my opponents to cry every time they see me walk in.

You misunderstood me. I meant that its overkill, your kill all his dedicated assault troops and spend the rest of the game crushing troops.

If you take one command squad, then your be able to:

1.Take more bikes, this means you can congo line and take more then one objective.

2. Fit more dakka in, stuff like predators and Typhoon landspeeders. Get some rifleman dreads in too.

3. More speed, bring more attack bikes and MM/HF speeders.

well, if I dropped a command squad, I could get like 3 more biker tac squads... but the command squad is as durable (or moreso) than 2x squads... and much more deadly in hand to hand. Would having 3 rifleman dreads really be better than a command squad? as it stands now, I could annihilate any transport, and then butcher the squad inside...

bump... had some sudden inspiration... combine the best elements of the vulkan assaulty list, with the melta goodness of bikers, and you get some supremely awesome shootyness.

Drop the SS on the Captain, if you want an invuln save on this guy just turbo-boost.

Change the LRR --> LRC.

Change the Assault Termies to ALL TH/SS.

Drop one melta bike squadron and the SS and grab 2x Rifleman dreadnoughts for long-range firepower. (Or AC/HB predators). If you can't fit the points drop an AB.

This way your termies are tough as nails, LRC > LRR because of the complications of flamestorm. If anything though take 1 as a LRC 1 as a LRR.

Also, DT one of the LR's. O, and if you don't take any more elites, just grab 2x 5 man TH/SS squads and DT both LR's.

BTW, your list reminds me of this http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/07/space-marines-best-of-part-deux.html

if I drop a bike squadron... I just have 15 troops... is that really enough?

added a second list for consideration...

new list posted, biker horde, 47 guys on the table. see first post.

I don’t personally like it.
You have NO attack bike squadrons or Land Speeder Squadrons…basically the hvy support to the list.

Khan: meh, you have no Attack bike squadrons to make the most of Outflanking.
Though you have biker squads, I’d be hesitant to throw those in outflanking consistently.
Command bikes: they look ok, but a bit overblinged. Don’t overestimate their durability, the low model count of the squad is killer for me.
Libby is ok: what powers? Null Zone prob…and maybe Might. Hood is good to include, but the opportunity cost is losing out on a Chappy, to get fearless and rr hits and then rr wounds from claws.

Biker squads:
I wouldn’t mix weapons on the first…pairs of weapons work best.
Note: fluff wise there are 10 men, but it’s still only 9 models strong.

I’m iffy on the Bike Scout squad. Though they look ok, they are lesser in every way to a biker squad in that they trade it for lower cost and their special rules/abilities.
Now those special rules/abilities really make or break this sort of squad…I personally don’t like them, but YMMV, some others have done wonders with them.

Now…as I’ve said before, I like them a lot, but what makes them never get in my lists is that they don’t score.

So you have a 44 model count.
If you count wounds then: 50.

Your responses to tourney builds:

*Nob Bikers: well, there’s not much you can do other than that alpha strike…which is always hit or miss when it comes to Nob Bikers.
*Horde Orks: What is the scouts are on the wrong side? You kite with the bikers, but becareful in throwing around phrases like ‘fall back’. But in general, it’s better for you to charge them than they charge you, but watch out for Waagghhing.
*CSM: well again, outflank isn’t always the answer. The uber squad can only do hunting if the princes stay together. In which case they can still be near, but not together to make the most out of lash. In addition, even though the hood and lash have the same range, it’s not hard to see if lash will end up in the libbies area of influence.
Basically he’ll at least have a turn or two to do whatever he wants… and that can be very very bad. It’s only worse if he has a rhino wall, as you don’t have very many MM’s nor longer ranged stuff to oust them consistently.





*MechEldar: it’s generally hit or miss. It’s good to engage them early and try to down vehicles, but remember…only the AP 1 feature is of great use against the Serpents, the additional D6 won’t come into play most of the time vs. a serpent.
In addition, they don’t generally rely on firepower, they rely on speed much like your list, but they do the reserve list much better than Bikers IMO.
*Seer Council: yea… pretty much that.
*Fatecrusher: full reserves is an option.
*Mech IG: combo charge chimeras that are close together. Be wary of spammed special weapons… they can have more special weapons shots than you can have bikes sometimes.
*horde IG- it’s a sound plan, but I think you assume too much. Any guard army ‘can’ put out a lot of shots…Even with the durability of the bikers, it’s only 44 models. Even with nice saves it’s still a low model count. Too many people overestimate their durability.
vulkan marines - pop the land raiders, use null zone, kill hammer terminators with command squad. engage attack bikes in hand to hand with biker squads.

I think the majority of the list is decent.
I don’t personally like the HQ and FA options used, but I know those that use them well enough.
I think it’s a very ‘in your face’…but I guess that’s just a play style thing.

Oh yea… objectives on top floor lolcakes.

well, seeing as scout bikers are expensive as hell, I really wouldn't mind replacing them with something else at this point. Hell, the entire list is still in the "being purchased" stage, so radical changes are no biggie.

how about....

HQ- Captain (relic blade, stormshield, artificer armor, bike) - 195 pts
Command squad - 2x w/ stormshield + claw, 2x w/ flamer, banner, champion - 305 pts

Troops- 10 man biker squad - (2x melta, multimelta, fist) - 310 pts
Troops- 10 man biker squad - (2x melta, multimelta, fist) - 310 pts
Troops- 10 man biker squad - (2x melta, multimelta, fist) - 310 pts

Fast- 2x mm/hf speeders 140 pts
Fast- 2x mm/hf speeders 140 pts
Fast- 2x mm/hf speeders 140 pts

I'm very open to suggestions at this point.

To be fair 200ish points for 10 T5 4+ armor is decent, not crazy expensive.
To be more fair, they are prob. a better investment than a tactical squad in terms of offensive ability, esp. vs. hordes.
But what they lack is the scoring status...which is the balancing factor...and that they can't climb stairs...
________________

Captain is a bit over geared: AA or SS, no real need for both.
Command Squad: I don't believe you can give the champion extra gear like the flamer.
I'm meh about the inclusion of hte command squad.

For the same cost you could have another max biker squad...

Biker squads look ok, but cookie-cutter, seriously, a pair of flamers are good on them...and the hbAB has a place in those squads.

Cookie-cutter speeders, but are 'decent'. I personally don't like speeders though, MMABs have been nothing but MVP's and Gold for me.

ok... ONE MORE SHOT AT IT.

thanks for all the feedback sanctjud.

HQ- Biker Captain (TH+SS) - 180 pts
Command squad - 2x fist + stormshield) 285 pts

Troops- 5 man biker squad (2x flamer + heavy bolter) - 165 pts
Troops- 5 man biker squad (2x flamer + heavy bolter) - 165 pts
Troops- 10 man biker squad (2x melta, multimelta, fist) - 310 pts
Troops- 10 man biker squad (2x melta, multimelta, fist) - 310 pts

Fast- 10 man scout squad (2x grenade launchers) - 230pts
Fast- 2x multimelta attack bikes
Fast- 2x multimelta attack bikes



gives me 6 multimelta attack bikes total, along with 4 melta guns. 10 melta weapons + fists should be enough anti-tank for most, right?

Captain: I’m meh about the Thunderhammer, wasting the good Initiative, a relic is good.
Command Squad is meh as well.
I say one fist is decent, then get 2 special weapons so that it’s flexible like a biker squad, but does cc a bit better.
Small bike squad looks ok. I don’t like small units of bikers, but those work.
‘9’ man biker squads look ok.
Scout Bikers: I say a fist in there is a good thing…maybe shift over the Command bikers’ fist over to scouts.
MMABs are good…though I like larger squads, but hurting on points.
I think it looks decent…maybe a little iffy on the scoring models at the 1850 level.

Beware of rooftop objectives…the suxorz…but that goes along with biker territory.

HQ- Captain (relic blade, stormshield, artificer armor, bike) - 195 pts
Command squad - 2x w/ stormshield + claw, 2x w/ flamer, banner, champion - 305 pts

Troops- 10 man biker squad - (2x melta, multimelta, fist) - 310 pts
Troops- 10 man biker squad - (2x melta, multimelta, fist) - 310 pts
Troops- 10 man biker squad - (2x melta, multimelta, fist) - 310 pts

Fast- 2x mm/hf speeders 140 pts
Fast- 2x mm/hf speeders 140 pts
Fast- 2x mm/hf speeders 140 pts

Well, I'd drop the Command squad and get some support units in there
such as two Vindicators or three dakka Predators.

What about 'crons, you'd be flattened if they had a monolith, what with nothing that can do anything to it, and destroyers would rip the scout bikers to bits. Also if it is a tourney the IG might have a hydra or three which would really f*** up your plans.

Well, turbo boosting is good to get cover saves vs. the monolith before the bikers commit.
Scout bikers can get 3+ cover saves vs. Destroyers as they get close.

At the very least the COmmand Squad with Captain would do really well to clear out 'necron' models to try and force phase out.

Hell, command squad on one side. Captain with bike squad on the other.

What codex is this? According to my SM codex 8 is the maximum amount of units in a bike squad...Besides, a MM attack bike is much better than 2 bikes

@Tedurur:
You are incorrect.
The maximum size is 9 MODELS.
8 Bikers, 1 Attack Bike.
There are 10 'Space Marines' in the unit, but that is just a fluff number.

The codex I use has the Smurf shooting a CSM...that's the most recent one.

Oh, I ment bikes not bikes+ attack bikes. Not that it matters tho, I realize that he did indeed mean to field 8 bikes+1 MM attack bike so thats all fine I guess .

I don't like writing 9 bike squads. yes, its 7 bikers, an attack bike team, and a sergeant. thats 10 men. which is why I wrote 10 man squad, not 9 bike squad

sanctjud, my reasoning behind the th/ss hammer setup on the captain along with the 2 fists is that their primary goal is taking out monstrous creatures. Meltas are only able to do so much against them... and you just need to apply copious amounts of power fist swings to them. Without the command squad, I could see myself being flattened by nidzilla, and nobs would walk all over me. throwing out 10 powerfist swings seems to me the best way to deal with them.

as for scoring units, 30 men seems to be enough scoring I normally field 25 tac marines at 1850, and I normally don't lack scoring units. true, they are in rhinos, but +5 wounds and +1 T should make up for that.

I agree I need a fist on my scouts, but what should I remove to put one there? The grenade launchers?

as for scoring units, 30 men seems to be enough scoring I normally field 25 tac marines at 1850, and I normally don't lack scoring units. true, they are in rhinos, but +5 wounds and +1 T should make up for that.

I have 27 scoring bikers in 1500... I don't think that's enough.
I have 30 plague marines in rhinos at 1675 with my Chaos...I don't think that's enough.

So we you say 30 scoring bikers at 1850...I don't think it's enough.
Then again, my standards are:
"Too much is never enough."

As tothe wounds/T to making up for meching up...I don't think so.
It's nice in the short run and when you pull off force concentration, but overall, meching up with equal points is superior in a general sort of way.

Bikers are not points efficient. You get alot, but it's still pricey.


As for nidzilla... I don't tailor stuff for the eventuality of engaging uber units and such.
I generally keep my forces together and engage whatever together.
I think there is a problem when a 5 man squad of command bikes cost as much as they do with fists galore.../shrug.
If it works for you, it works for you. I prefer not to rely on units such as those... sinking 350+ points into a single unit takes away from the rest of the list IMO.

post your 1500 biker list... and how you do with it.

again, this is still entirely in production. I own most of the bikers I need for it, but their configurations are still entirely undecided.

Heh, I own all the bikers I need, but my 1500 is as concrete as I want it. Though I have extensive greenstuffing planned... I prob. won't finish this army within the next say....... year and a half to two years... only cause I'm lazy and I spend more time posting on these forums than actually getting work done (work meaning actually job/work work and greenstuffing )

I did post my 1500 biker list a while back, but it was before all this Biker fanboyism that has recently bit DakkaDakka.

If you want to see my list:

Captain, Bike, Relic, Storm Shield, Digital weapons (cause I had the points left).
8 Bikers, 2 meltas, Fist, Hvy Bolter Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, 2 meltas, Fist, Hvy Bolter Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, 2 flamers, Fist, Hvy Bolter Attack Bike.
3 Multi-Melta Attack Bikes.
3 Multi-Melta Attack Bikes.
3 Hvy Bolter Attack Bikes.

Now they are still WIP.
My first game on the board with proxies was a major wipe out vs. a SM Dread spam list, I made crazy amounts of wrong choices.
Second game was vs. a Daemon Hunter army with IG allies, a win here, with better decisions, keeping together and turned around and wiped someone else out.

So a Major win and a Major Loss. Nothing spectacular.

Most of my experience with bikers comes from Vassal…for better or for worse.
I think I made battle reports for most of them, but I’ll have to go home to get you the win/lose/draw figures.
I was not too shabby with them. Though my antics with them are more known over at 40K Online as opposed to Dakka Dakka.

On the 40K Online Vassal Tournament that fizzled and died before the last round I had maximum battle points from the 2 previous games.
Round 1 was vs. a Saim Hann army, (Autarch, Seer, 7 man Counsel on jetbikes, 2 Squads of flamer Guardians, 2 squads of DA…and some other stuff.. maybe a prism or two. I had ended wiping out that whole army after I alpha striked the council with my whole army and then actually “out-speeded” my opponent who tried to go for objectives to salvage the situation, but I was lucky in range to destroy what I needed.

High point: MMAB exploding a serpent on an objective, charging the contents and running them all down.

Round 2 was… I don’t remember… heh…it’s been like 14 months since then.

__________-------------__________

Other fights include a smattering of (last ed) Drop Guard, (new ed) Chimera Spam, Necrons of many kinds, Several mixed Tyranid armies, etc.

I’ll dig up the details if you really want.

Generally I used either all reserves or congaline jerk moves as deployment, then picked a side and press go.
Though there is a bit more decision making to go.
Dumbrush forward or pick off at the enemy…etc.

There is an enjoyment in having so many options when approaching an enemy.
Which is a double edged sword as well… wrong decisions cost a biker army dearly, it’s hard to recover/not forgiving.

And yea, it’s been 14ish months and I still don’t know what I want to use to expand out to 1750/1850/2000…there are just so many decent options.

So in summary, I do well enough. I have lost with it and it’s given me much to think about how I use my list. The more I baby my bikers, the more I try to create an unbalanced concentration of my forces to the opponents on the board, the better it does.

It runs much like an Eldar army mind set. Setting traps, knowing when to commit, keeping objectives on mind, going for a later game win…stuff like that.

Yea, I used to play a nearly All jetbike Eldar army (10 Warlock jetbike council, 30 Guardian Jetbikes, and 2 prisms).
My main army is CSM though, 2 Daemon Princes, 30 plague marines in rhinos, 6 oblits.
Both have done exceedingly well so far…and my SM biker army is pretty much a blend of both Eldar and CSM in the way I approach them…almost a middleground.

Ahh, I’m rambling now.

Updated list, as of 12/4/09

the librarian will join the plasma bike squad, and gun things down.

HQ- Captain on bike (relic blade + stormshield, hellfire rounds) - 190 pts
HQ- Command squad (315 pts)
Member #1- Champion, Company Standard
Member #2- Apothecary
Member #3- Power sword, bolt pistol
Member #4- Lightning claw, Stormshield, Flamer
Member #5- Lightning claw, Stormshield
HQ- Librarian on bike (null zone + vortex of doom)- 135 pts

Troops- 5 bikers (2x melta, multimelta) - 185 pts
Troops- 5 bikers (2x melta, multimelta) - 185 pts
Troops- 9 bikers (2x plasma, multimelta, fist) - 320 pts
Troops- 9 bikers (2x flamers, heavy bolter) - 265 pts

Fast- 10 scout bikers (2x grenade launchers, fist) -255 pts




some variants i'm considering... drop the command squad for 6 multimelta attack bikers. doesn't change the survivability of the army, really, but increases the anti-tank by alot. however it does remove my ability to really deal with scary enemy assaulty bits.

I wanna leave the scouts in... they seem to be just too good to not include. against full mech armies, the ability to combat squad and hit multiple transports first round seems like gold. sure, its an expensive hammer, but if I can bring down a russ squadron, an executioner, or a few predators before they can even fire, its more than worth it... or so it seems.

Captain: hellfire rounds Meh. Digital Weapons I have found more use for. Hellfires have been underwhelming.

Command Squad:
You can stack the champion and standard? I didn’t know that.
IMO, get the LC instead on the power weapon/BP dude… it’s still unique and the lightning claw edges out the power weapon statistically.
IMO leave that guy a joe for bullet taking though.
Problem: no fist in the squad.

Libby: Null is ok, I’m meh on the Votex though.
Snake eyes do show up and then that’s an instant killed libby.
In addition, though he has fast speed, with the plasma squad they will be playing the kiting game, in which they shouldn’t be within 12” all that often…and when you do you only have BS4 to lesson scatters…etc.

I feel the plasma squad is a ‘generalist’… so I think giving the libby Might of the ancients makes him into a temporary Captain for the extra hitting power when they need it.

5 Bikers : I never liked min sized squads
Plasma bikers are meh/decent, though I think the plasma squad is on that doesn’t need such a large squad.
Flamer squad is ok.

Scout bikers are meh.
I think you are missing out on a lot of fun/awesome/win by not taking attack bike squadrons…they are crazy good.



Dealing with scary assault bits: avoid them, out run them, sacrifice something and maximize damage on the way in, alpha strike.
There are many other options besides ‘trying’ to match the opponent’s uber squad.

So far the uber squads I’ve dealt with are:
-Termies + LR variant.
-Nob bikers.
-Mega-nobs in truck or battlewagon.
-Jetbike Council.

There are ways to deal with them without resorting to your own ‘uber unit’.

I like the dropping of the command squad for 6 MMABs… I love it.
But, more importantly take what you want. I strongly suggest MMABs because they have been wonderful for me and many others… but not everyone is the same.

or so it seems.

We’ll see how ‘right’ that line is when you get some games in
Good Luck.

updated list as of 12/11/09-

HQ- Captain (relic blade + stormshield, bike) - 180 pts
HQ- Librarian (Might + Null Zone, bike) - 135 pts

HQ- Command squad on bikes (power sword, champion) - 235 pts

Troops- 10 man bike squad (2x flamer, heavy bolter) - 265 pts
Troops- 10 man bike squad (2x plasma, multimelta) - 295 pts
Troops- 10 man bike squad (2x melta, multimelta) - 285 pts

Fast- 10 man scout bike squad (2x grenade launchers, fist) - 255 pts
Fast- 2 attack bikes (multimeltas)
Fast- 2 attack bikes (multimeltas)


I dropped the effectiveness of the command squad, now its just an anti-meq unit. I don't think 235 points for it is that bad though, considering they have the durability of terminators. they don't pack the punch, but they hit hard.

I also dropped the fist off my biker squad, because it shouldn't be in hand to hand anyway, and if it is, it will probably have a librarian or a captain attached to it for extra power in hand to hand.

so... I think this is probably enough anti-tank in the form of 6 multimelta attack bikes, and 2 multimeltas from the MM squad. do you think i'd need more? between that and krak grenades, I should be fine I think.