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CCS (60)
-autocannon

PCS (120)
-Captain Al'Rahem
-Flamer x4

IF Squad x2 (120)
-combined
-autocannon x2

Heavy Weapons Team (60)

Vet Squad + Sgt Harker (140)
-GL x3


I haven't had a chance to play this list, thought I'd take some suggestions before I try and get everything together. I'm trying to stay away from a mechanized list, but I'm not outright disregarding vehicles. Any thoughts and opinions are welcome.

Definately interesting, I like it.

Just two problems:

1. Mortars aren't really that great, and they'll be too vulnerable outflanking.

2. You have no anti AV14 against that one guy who takes the Leman Russ or Land Raider. I recommend giving the CCS some meltaguns (instead of their autocannon) with the points from dropping the mortars to remedy that. You may also want to give the PCS flamers instead of grenade launchers, since you could do with a bit more anti-horde.

I figured the mortars would work nicely for anti-horde. I may be mistaken, but I was under the conclusion that the entire IF Platoon outflanked together - so the IF Squads could give cover to the heavy weapons team if needed. I could also change it out for another IF squad w/ an autocannon. I'm not worried so much about breaking AV14 at 500 pts. I know it's possible for people to bring these in at this point bracket, but most disallow it. I like giving the PCS the flamers though, I'll change that on the list.

I don't know, having mortars that close to the enemy seems very iffy to me.

If you drop them, you could give the PCS a chimera so they can serve as a makeshift hellhound. If you don't want vehicles, then I suppose you could stick with the mortars, but I'm not sure how well that'd turn out - it needs to be playtested, I think.

Mortars hardly work since most armies that you would want to pin are immune to pinning or have some other way to get out of the effect.

I always have to deal with AV14. My buddy plays orks, and brings a battlewagon just to give me hell. You should never leave yourself open to anything. Always have a chance to handle every situation. That means bring something S8 +D6 at the very least. Lascannons are easy to get, even at 500pts. So aren't S8 ordinance weapons... which get to reroll their D6 to pen. You really should at least one bigger gun.

IIRC, Al'Rahem is the one that lets you do extra movements during your turn, giving you extra mobility. The problem with that is you have heavy weapons in the squads, when you should have assault weapons... so you can fire while you move.

hmm.. the lack of large weaponry is noteworthy - I'll see what I can re-arrange for that. Al'Rahem has an extra order he can give that lets a squad move after they fire, their type of weaponry is irrelevant (actually makes heavy weapons kind of cool. They fire, then move d6 inches).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CCS (70)
-lascannon

PCS (120)
-Al'Rahem
-Flamerx4

IF Squad x2 (120)
-combined
-autocannon x2

Vet Squad (120)
-Forward Sentries
-Lascannon

Scout Sentinel x2 (70)


What do you think?

Denepnds on what weapons do you want with the sentinels. I think al rahem is too expensive for this point format. Flamers for small hq is fine but you have to buy them a chimera. Infantry squad is set up fine, maybe some GL but thats just because i love them too much . Forward sentries... i dunno. I would drop them. If, take carapace. You comand squad will be killed easily. Your opponent will focus on them as they have low save and a lascannon which is one of two anti AV14. I think your lascannons will get about 4 Shots in each game and i think it is not enough. Enemy will focus on them if they have 14 armour or just to deny orders and deny accurate vets. Sentinels have flamer right? Or autocannons? I dunno, both is fine and pick out av 14 from behind which can make up thing desribed couple sentences earlier. Cheers.

I'd probably go with a list like this:

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Primaris Psyker (70pts)

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Veteran Squad (135pts)
   - 7x Veteran
     - 3x Plasma Gun
   - 1x Veteran Sergeant
   - 1x Veteran Heavy Weapons Team
     - 1x Lascannon
2. Veteran Squad (155pts)
   - 9x Veteran
     - 3x Meltagun
   - 1x Veteran Sergeant
   - 1x Chimera
     - 1x Hull Heavy Flamer
3. Veteran Squad (140pts)
   - 9x Veteran
     - 3x Grenade Launcher
   - 1x Veteran Sergeant
   - 1x Chimera
     - 1x Hull Heavy Flamer

I know you said you didn't really want to be mechanized, but you'll need some way to get to objectives and to protect yourself from enemy fire, and Chimeras do both wonderfully. You could swap out one Chimera for Harker (probably the GL squad) but I'm not sure if you can stick the PP in his squad and still Infiltrate.

to w0chtulka:
scout sentinels have multi-lasers. I can give them some flamers or autocannons for cheap, which may not be a bad idea. Al'Rahem makes this list interesting - taking him out changes the entire concept. He IS a bit expensive, but I think it can still work effectively. Carapace may be better for them in this case. Forward sentries was taken to mock their original purpose in the first list, in which they had Sgt Harker + GL's. I actually don't care for this list as much as the first, but I'm having a hard time of incorporating anti-AV14 while staying infantry based.

to MasterSlowPoke:
No thanks. I have a mechanized list that's similar to that and works well, but that's not the point. I'm looking at working with this idea, not completely changing the list.

Remember he's looking for an infantry army. This looks like a really fun list. I'm throwing together a 600-800-1000 pt. League and I limit the AV to 12 for the first game, 13 for the 800 bracket, then full 14 for the 1000pt game. Fun outflanking guardsmen. Your list doesn't look too competitive, but it should be real fun to play and play against.

sif pack a special character in a 500 pt game :/

I'd run this lean mean shootin' machine

ccs: autocannon , power weapon
70 pts

inf platoon:
pcs: autocannon 40 pts
inf squad: m.launcher, gren/flamer 70 pts
inf squad: m.launcher, gren/flamer 70 pts
180 pts total

veteran squad: 3 meltaguns
100 pts

russ:
150 pts

500 pts neat, packs a fair whack of firepower and the Russ will dominate at that pv. Russes, don't leave home without 'em.

You have no anti AV14 against that one guy who takes the Leman Russ or Land Raider

BE that guy!

He did not wanted a russ. What about lascannon weapon team and give it twin link with bring it down order?

CCS (autocannon) 60

Vets (3x sniper, autocannon, forward sentries) 125

PCS (2x flamer, AlRahem (if you want him)) 110

Inf squad x2 (Combined or not, depends) 100

Lascannon HWS 105

500 pts.

This is well balanced i think. Infantry squads can fill air with lasgun volleys with first rank second rank order. Sniper vets will be sitting in 3+ cover pinning and killing. Lascannon teams can be issued bring it down to kill AV14 or big monsters. Flamers provide some anti horde. AlRahem is too expensive :(. I couldnt stick 4 flamers in that squad :(. CCS will sit at back issuing orders and shooting iwth AC.

^_^ Thank you all for the suggestions and feedback, the input was helpful.

w0chtulka wrote:Denepnds on what weapons do you want with the sentinels. I think al rahem is too expensive for this point format. Flamers for small hq is fine but you have to buy them a chimera. Infantry squad is set up fine, maybe some GL but thats just because i love them too much . Forward sentries... i dunno. I would drop them. If, take carapace. You comand squad will be killed easily. Your opponent will focus on them as they have low save and a lascannon which is one of two anti AV14. I think your lascannons will get about 4 Shots in each game and i think it is not enough. Enemy will focus on them if they have 14 armour or just to deny orders and deny accurate vets. Sentinels have flamer right? Or autocannons? I dunno, both is fine and pick out av 14 from behind which can make up thing described couple sentences earlier. Cheers.

Vets with Forward Sentries and a HW is one of the most potent combos IG have. They are a tad expensive, and its generally one of the first upgrades I toss out when I need to scrounge a few more points to fit in another Hellhound or Russ. Here is how I play them: deploy on your board edge, close to an objective... advance your troops to capture the objective and deploy the Vets on the objective inside the heaviest cover available (since you get to place objectives... I would recommend keeping in mind and try to place an objective in cover so you can do this). Make sure to set up the heavy weapon in a position to do the most damage, with good LoS. For the rest of the game hold the point with your Vets, give support with your 4' range BS4 autocannon or lascannon. I generally include 2 GLs and 1 flamer, so that when the enemy goes to assault this squad, you can frag them or krak them and thin them out prior to them reaching your cover... then you can maneuver to (hopefully) template them prior to the assault. If you get shot at, you have your cover. It isn't hard to find 4+ cover, which is now 3+ for you. Go to ground, and you have 2+... give them an order, and they get back up to shoot again. That's a TEQ save. God forbid you find some 3+ cover, and you get to sit there with 2+ cover without having to go to ground. A 10 wound squad with 2+ saves requires 60 wounds to be destroyed, which is even more hits, and even more shots.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:I'd probably go with a list like this:
----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Primaris Psyker (70pts)
----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Veteran Squad (135pts)
   - 7x Veteran
     - 3x Plasma Gun
   - 1x Veteran Sergeant
   - 1x Veteran Heavy Weapons Team
     - 1x Lascannon
2. Veteran Squad (155pts)
   - 9x Veteran
     - 3x Meltagun
   - 1x Veteran Sergeant
   - 1x Chimera
     - 1x Hull Heavy Flamer
3. Veteran Squad (140pts)
   - 9x Veteran
     - 3x Grenade Launcher
   - 1x Veteran Sergeant
   - 1x Chimera
     - 1x Hull Heavy Flamer
I know you said you didn't really want to be mechanized, but you'll need some way to get to objectives and to protect yourself from enemy fire, and Chimeras do both wonderfully. You could swap out one Chimera for Harker (probably the GL squad) but I'm not sure if you can stick the PP in his squad and still Infiltrate.

I don't like this list at all. At 500 pts you could have a Russ, or twice as many infantry squads. All I see is a bunch of pointsinks.

Jimole wrote:sif pack a special character in a 500 pt game :/
I'd run this lean mean shootin' machine
ccs: autocannon , power weapon
70 pts
inf platoon:
pcs: autocannon 40 pts
inf squad: m.launcher, gren/flamer 70 pts
inf squad: m.launcher, gren/flamer 70 pts
180 pts total
veteran squad: 3 meltaguns
100 pts
russ:
150 pts
500 pts neat, packs a fair whack of firepower and the Russ will dominate at that pv. Russes, don't leave home without 'em.

You have no anti AV14 against that one guy who takes the Leman Russ or Land Raider

BE that guy!

MLs are terrible. You spend more points on a ML than you do a mortar, and its the same blast, except mortars can indirect fire, and can pin, and can bypass cover. a S8 ML is going to get glancing on AV14... if you roll a 6. At BS 3, that's terrible odds. You would have to give orders to twinlink them every turn just to keep them viable. ML looks like it would be versitile, but don't fall into that trap. Look at the numbers, autocannons and heavy bolters are cheaper, and have better odds to damage infantry. Against AV14 ML is not what you want, and against AV13 or less autocannons can do the job just fine, with twice as many shots.

Powerweapons blow. Never, ever... ever... take them. A human is S3. Find me an opponent who is T3 and I'll show you are 50% chance to wound... find me an opponent with WS3 and T3, and I'll show you an opponent you have 25% chance to wound. Now consider that most melee armies are going to bring WS4+ and have S4+ and T4+... and will have squads bigger than 5. Now explain to me why 10 points on a powersword is a good idea. Not to mention the squad has an AC in it... and is obviously not meant to be in melee. If you want to melee with an IG army... bring powerfists. Now that guy with T4 gets wounded on a 2+. Also, make sure you always get the assault... we are just little humans, we need every advantage we can get. And you can't afford not to be flameing that squad before you hit it, too. A powersword's 10pts could be 2 special weapons, or 2 Vox, or another heavy weapon. That's a much better buy than a glowing sword.

I will have to agree that it isn't hard for IG to bring AV12 or AV14 even at 500pts. I know that you want an infantry list, but frankly it is scary to fight a tank with AV14, and a S8 AP3 pieplate, (and possibly) 2 S7 AP2 small blasts, and a lascannon for good measure.

w0chtulka wrote:He did not wanted a russ. What about lascannon weapon team and give it twin link with bring it down order?
CCS (autocannon) 60
Vets (3x sniper, autocannon, forward sentries) 125
PCS (2x flamer, AlRahem (if you want him)) 110
Inf squad x2 (Combined or not, depends) 100
Lascannon HWS 105
500 pts.
This is well balanced i think. Infantry squads can fill air with lasgun volleys with first rank second rank order. Sniper vets will be sitting in 3+ cover pinning and killing. Lascannon teams can be issued bring it down to kill AV14 or big monsters. Flamers provide some anti horde. AlRahem is too expensive :(. I couldnt stick 4 flamers in that squad :(. CCS will sit at back issuing orders and shooting iwth AC.

It's a good list, the snipers work well with the AC... HWS with BiD is one of my fav orders. I definitely recommend it. Downside is that they do not have 8 spare wounds in the squad. You get hit by something S6, and you lose a whole heavy weapon. And without a squad to use as a meatshield... they die easy... and they are a prime target for your enemy. I recommend setting them up on a point, in the heaviest cover you can find. (They can hold points by themselves... so keep that in mind.) I use them all the time, it is just that with so few units on the board at 500pts, its hard to hide a sweet squishy pointsink like a heavy weapons squad.

I really think that you need to find a way to get special weapons into the infantry squads. They are useless how they are now. Drop the forward sentries, and use the 30pts to put GLs and mortars in the infantry squads and fill out the flamers in the PCS. Also consider possibly adding a Vox network; the whole reason you have this list is for Al'Rahem... if he fails his orders, then you spent a lot of points for nothing. Then as you dance around you can try to keep the enemy pinned (which works well with the snipers and mortars) and this will actually put some teeth on the infantry squads which are the core of your list w/ Al'Rahem.

Good points Lathrop. I dont like rahem too but he likes him a lot i think. I would take a hydra or something like that instead.

eh, I thought outflanking an entire IF platoon was a nifty idea, but the 70 points you have to drop on Al'Rahem are better spent elsewhere in a 500 point setup. Is it possible to draw up a competitive infantry based list, or is it more of a for-fun army style?

It definetly is possible but not with AlRahem. List i posted is well ballanec with those upgrades lt lathrop suggested and can take allcomers. It has good capabilities and definetly is competitive at 500 pts. Just replace AlRahem with something else. Maybe sentinel/s or chimera and some upgrades for your squads.

Infantry heavy IG lists simply rely on large amounts of bodies and heavy weapons. IMO infantry works better in small armies than it does in big armies. Bring a single platoon, and then fill out the rest of your army with vets squads. Use the platoon to bring cheap squads that can take points. With special weapons you can actually put a little kick into your infantry. Use them to protect the Vets who can use their BS4 to lay down fire at 4'. Orders are you best friends, and so aren't heavy weapons squads. Remember anything you take inside the Platoon, including the PCS are all troops... and can hold points.

I generally play small 500-1000 balanced armies. I generally put half in infantry and half in vehicles. Sentinels and Hellhounds are powerful allies at 500pts. Russ are a bit of a sink at 500... but are nasty if the enemy has nothing to counter AV14.

I love vehicles and my army is only 1000pts. worth now but its (almost) completly motorised. I usually play plasma HQ in chimera, 2 vets squads in chimeras, one meltas and shotguns, second GLs, autocannon and 2 shotguns (yea wierd but works for me). I stick in Demolisher, plasma sentinel, 5 stormies and Marbo .

w0chtulka wrote:[...] and Marbo .

Ugh... useless.

Marbo? Useless? No way! He is "feth you" button. And he is very funny too. He can kill termie squad. He can kill hive tyrant with last wound, etc. Every time i use him he makes his points back. He can kill devastators, broadsides, tau commanders, nobs..... He makes his points back!! And i love him!!!

To the OP - your lists look good, but I think the infantry squads need special weapons if you are using them with 'al rahem. They will want to shoot when they come on the board... the autocannons will be useful for those games you come on the wrong side, but may not be necessary at 500pts...

w0chtulka wrote:Marbo? Useless? No way! He is "feth you" button. And he is very funny too. He can kill termie squad. He can kill hive tyrant with last wound, etc. Every time i use him he makes his points back. He can kill devastators, broadsides, tau commanders, nobs..... He makes his points back!! And i love him!!!

How is he killing whole terminator or nob squads? A cursory glance at his rules definitely doesn't leave me that impressed.

He comes on in cover for a 3+ save, throws his super-accurate demo charge with BS5, and takes out a whole squad. If he survives the return fire he can do a bit of damage with his pistol, knife, and then leave combat.

Makr pretty much summed it up. He is also big psychological thread. Even if he doesnt take out a whole squad killing, say two termies of nobs will pay his points cost.

makr wrote:demo charge

Ah... yeah that might do it.

Basically killing one termy buys the points back yoU spent on marbo, or one biker nob