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This is what I am looking at for 1000 points of space marines. Gosh it is hard to make decent space marines list at 1000 points...

Master of the Forge (Conversion Beamer) 120

Tactical (Flamer, MM, Rhino) 205

Tactical (Flamer, MM, Rhino) 205

5 Scouts (Sniper Rifles, HB, +Telion) 155

Landspeeder (HF/MM) 70

Landspeeder (HF/MM) 70

Predator (AC/HB) 85

Predator (AC/HB) 85

This will be the starting point for my (eventual) Salamanders army.

Does the MotF travel with anyone?

Nope, he hides as far back as possible in general. Depending on how I can set up, or if there are a lot of outflanks, he will join the snipers, but if there is a central ruin or forest in my deployment zone, it is his home.

He reinforces a ruin for the snipers also.

Looks good to me
Fluffy too

I would drop tellion,don t like independent characters a lot..and get me a full sniper rifle team...almost..and maybea heavy weapon

If I also hated independant characters, I would drop him too. The fact that he picks off heavy weapons, nobs, warlocks, etc out of squads is too good to ignore. Especially out of a 2+ cover save with BS 5!

The snipers have a Heavy Bolter in there already, sorry if that's not clear.

It looks like a solid downscaling of the popular Internet list (I won't mention the authors name). That's an effective list.

The big difference where I think this list loses effectiveness compared with that one is the lack of dreadnoughts. With this army list, the dreads are really important as blockers who hold the enemy away from your shooty bitz while threatening heavy transports with the MM.

I'd drop a speeder and something else to get a single MM dread in there. That gives you more a more durable platform with the same number of meltas, and you have flamers on your tac squads. Telion is the obvious thing to drop--1000 points is just really small to justify a 50 point character.

I am going to have to rethink this a little. I do like to bring things into the list in at least twos whenever possible. I wonder... will this work without Predators and focusing more on the mid-table fighting?

I have all the models anyway, including some dreadnoughts (as I have been buying and building toward a larger list), so some playtesting will have to take place to see what to get in and what can go.

Another option for some points could be to change one Tactical Squad into something like:

5 Tactical (Sgt with Combi-Melta) & Razorback.

I agree that two dreads would be better than one, but that would require some major trimming at 1000 points.

My experience playing a version of this list suggests that the predators are more important than the speeders. The speeders are a one-shot unit that either stalks and kills something and then dies, or interdicts movement and then dies. Although they don't have as much mobility, your ground vehicles can interdict movement to some extent, and are much more durable, and have more long-range killiness against everything except 13+AR vehicles (which is what the multi-meltas are for).

I think going to the minsize tac squad and razorback is a false economy. You really need those bodies and multi-meltas more than anything you can get for the 75 points you save.

multi melta and flamer in the tac squads? that is a bit silly, the multi melta is a heavy weapon designed for taking out tanks at a the longest possible range away, and the flamer is an assault weapon designed to take out massed infantry at close range. Also if you use the flamer you will want to charge (or be shot at and charged next turn) but you can't because of the heavy weapon, and what are the chances of taking out a tank with one multi melta in a squad unless all the squads shoot which would be a waste of the bolters and flamers?

phantommaster wrote:multi melta and flamer in the tac squads? that is a bit silly, the multi melta is a heavy weapon designed for taking out tanks at a the longest possible range away, and the flamer is an assault weapon designed to take out massed infantry at close range. Also if you use the flamer you will want to charge (or be shot at and charged next turn) but you can't because of the heavy weapon, and what are the chances of taking out a tank with one multi melta in a squad unless all the squads shoot which would be a waste of the bolters and flamers?

It's dual-purpose. In practice, either the squad is (1) sitting in their rhino like a bunker shooting the MM out the hatch at hard targets, or they're (2) jumping out and bolter/flamering soft targets to death. It's similar to the flamer/MM speeder's function--the opponent can't ignore or easily counter them because they're a threat to everything.

Here is one idea:

Master of the Forge (Conversion Beamer) 120

Dreadnought w/ MM 105

Dreadnought w/ MM 105

Tactical (Flamer, MM, Rhino) 205

5 Scouts (Sniper Rifles, ML, Camo Cloaks, +Telion) 155

Landspeeder (HF/MM) 70

Landspeeder (HF/MM) 70

Predator (AC/HB) 85

Predator (AC/HB) 85

Total 995

Another option is to drop one of each: Pred, LS, Telion (though I like what he can do a lot) and get that 2nd Tac back in.

I'll start testing both next week (need to buy scouts and convert a MoTF though).

If the tactical is a 10 man unit, you could Combat Squad it, just to get an extra squad able to hold objectives....but that really hurts the squads ability to stay alive... not sure, just a thought.

Cheers