Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello dakkalads, xmas are coming and i have been thinking about making my imperial guard army bigger. I made up a list i think will work well and i want to hear some ideas and constructive critics from you. And i DONT want platoons just cuz i hate them. Also i want every part of the list to be motorized. Yea stormies and marbo, you might say after reading the list, but they have deep strike or hes behind you and are both just for the fun . Here we go!

HQ: CCS (4 Plasma guns, plasma pistol, power fist, carapace) 155
Chimera 55

Elites: 5 Stormies 85
Marbo 65

Troops: Vets (shotguns, 3 meltas, demo, carapace) 160
Vets (shotguns, 3 meltas, demo, carapace) 160
Vets (AC, 3 GL, 2 shotguns, carapace) 125
Vets (AC, 3 GL, 2 shotguns, carapace) 125
Chimera 55
Chimera 55

Fast attack: 2 Armoured sentinels (plasma, smokelaunchers) 160
Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130

Heavy support: Demolisher (lascannon) 180
Demolisher (lascannon) 180
Manticore (camo) 190

2000


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone? Any comments?

At 2000 pts this list is going to get eaten alive as is. You need to drop the unnecessary upgrades and get more units.

Your HQ, drop the PP, PF, and carapace. Elites, I dont know what to say...give them meltas for 105 pts, or drop them altogether. You have much better ways to use your points.

On your troops, drop all the carapace armour. Do AC\GL really work well for you? Your fast attacks, personally i like scout sentinels, and those guys are eating up 80 pts a piece.

Now buy more vet squads.

I'd have to agree the list is made up of some pretty bloated units. You definitely could save alot of points by getting rid of the carapace. You could make all the vet squads mounted - that's what you want isn't it? Are you mechvet, or are you mechvet?

The stormies, imo, need at least one special weapon, usually melta or plasma, preferably a twin pair.

You shouldn't be making your vets Demolitions and Grenadiers at the same time. I am assuming the chimeras are for those two squads - make them just demos, they will be protected anyways.

The AC/GL combo is pretty efficient, can't argue with that. Both are cheap and share targets to some extent.

I think those sentinels are expensive, but if you trim some fat elsewhere, it will be nice to have the PC's. Then again, scout sentinels would put more emphasis on mobility and you could put the PC's on the LRD's with those points. Are you going for fast, or heavy?

Vendettas are for melta vets. I will drop some carapaces but not weapons from CCS. That fist is there only for emergency. Marbo rules!!! Stormies can do really well against tau. I mean REALLY well. And lot of people in my group plays tau. Carapace on chimera squads is a big question for me because it is not uncommon to disembark from chimera (stunned, destroyed, extra rapid fire shots...) and with 5+ they will be very vulnerable. 4+ makes its point costs for chimera squads but not for vendetta squads i think. Stormies may actually work with plasma but i have enough plasma in my list i think. Armoured sentinels can both scare termies as they drop from DS or lock some units if necessary. AC/GL works well. Also i realized that shotguns in chimera squads are useless . What do you think about heavy support choices? I think manticore is a bit experimental for me as i never saw it in action but its stats say "i will kill nobs, muhehehe". I think anti vehicle is well taken care of with dual vendetta melta squads so i am thinking about dropping something and buying couple more vets squads, maybe without carapace now (150 pts. each with chimera).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok this is what i came up with:

HQ: CCS (4 Plasma guns) 110
Chimera 55

Elites: 5 Stormies 85
Marbo 65

Troops: Vets (shotguns, 3 meltas) 100
Vets (shotguns, 3 meltas) 100
Vets (AC, 3 GL) 95
Vets (AC, 3 GL) 95
Vets (3 Flamers) 85
Vets 70
Chimera 55
Chimera 55
Chimera 55
Chimera 55

Fast attack: 2 Armoured sentinels (plasma) 150
Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130

Heavy support: Demolisher (lascannon) 180
Demolisher (lascannon) 180
Manticore 160

2000

I think without carapace armor the list is a bit too soft. Also dropping camo on manticore will make it really much more vulnerable and was last solution for points growing over 2000.

Okay this is better. If you can't find points to give that last vet squad special weapons I'd drop them all together. With the points you could give demolitions to those 2 melta squads in the vendettas and give special weapons to that stormie squad.

Believe me, carapace is not worth it. When a squad's vehicle gets blown up, they get a cover save from being in the smoking crater. If it gets wrecked, move them on or behind the wreck. Generally speaking, it's better to have more units than units that are slightly tougher in some situations. Under the old doctrine rules, guard infantry could be upgraded to have carapace armour at +20 pts/squad - and it wasn't considered a really good idea then!

The list really does look a lot better now. You need points to arm the last veteran squad though - suggest replacing the plasma cannon sentinels with 3xscout sentinels w/autocannons. That's 120 points, is a much better unit IMO, since it can outflank, and you can give the vets 3x meltaguns. I think armoured sentinels are overpriced compared to the rest of the armour in the codex.

For the demolishers, looking good, 1 demolisher w/no upgrades, and 1 w/multimelta sponsons, might be better than 2 w/lascannons. Can't be certain, but I advise you to try it out. Seems like multimeltas shorter range won't be a problem on a demolisher, and they can be much more dangerous against high AV, just like the demolisher cannon.

I think i have anti vehicle taken care of so i dont need melta sponsons. Armoured sentinels will stay for 2 reasons. Number one being they made me proud in some games (One of them they killed hive tyrant with 3 guards and putted a wound on carnifex before dying from his charge). Number two i think they will be nice distraction and fire magnet. That can let my chimeras live longer i think. They will also scare termies and stuff like that. Good for broadsides camped somewhere on the hill at the back. Ill drop that one vanilla vets squad and see what i can do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stormies will not get special weapons. They are there to deepstrike and then rapid fire the closest squad hoping in pinning it. No special weapons needed. This is anti devastator or fire warrior or something similiar unit. Or pathfinders. Or dark reapers. etc. Also equipment for command squad is back. Especially carapace will hopefully same some guys when they burn themself with plasma. Power fist is there for emergency as people tend to tie my command squad with cheap units to deny orders. Like a scout squad.

HQ: CCS (4 Plasma guns, power fist, carapace, plasma pistol) 155
Chimera 55

Elites: 5 Stormies 85
Marbo 65

Troops: Vets (shotguns, 3 meltas, demolition) 130
Vets (shotguns, 3 meltas) 100
Vets (AC, 3 GL) 125
Vets (AC, 3 GL) 95
Vets (3 Flamers, shotguns, demolitions) 115
Chimera 55
Chimera 55
Chimera 55

Fast attack: 2 Armoured sentinels (plasma) 150
Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130

Heavy support: Demolisher (lascannon) 180
Demolisher (lascannon) 180
Manticore (Camo) 190

2000

5 storm troopers isn't enough. They will get shot to pieces in no time. You need a bigger unit.

Vets with auto cannon cannot move and shoot inside a chimera, if thats your plan, if not then the auto cannon has 48" range and the grenade launchers 24" - the vets will just sit back and camp, but those grenade launchers will be wasted. If you want to do that get a heavy weapons team.

Lascannon on a demolisher will miss most the time. Heavy bolter or heavy flamer is the way forward, I prefer heavy flamer as you don't need to worry about the ballistic skill.

5 Stormtroopers perfectly are enough. They are too small and that is their advantage. People will not want to waste shooting on them and will often underrestimate them. I know that vets cannot shoot from chimera with AC on move but the intention is that i move when i have to move. When moving i can still fire GL and rapid 3 lasguns (2 from heavy weapons team as it is one model and 1 from normal trooper). When movement is not needed i will fire AC. I dont like heavy bolter on demolisher as it doesnt share targets with main gun at all. Heavy flamer isnt good too because i will be hiding demolishers behind the chimeras. Lascannons will sometimes miss... but thats the reality of rolling dice. Even BS5 misses sometimes.

I consider your latest version a step back from the one before. You should have trimmed points to upgrade the last vet squad, instead you cut them and their chimera to bloat other units. I maintain that the stormtroopers and armoured plasma sentinels are bad units, flat out - there are better ways to get AP2 blasts, there are better ways to kill marines.

Cut those units, cut camo on the manticore, cut the power fist, plasma pistol and carapace on the command squad. That's 310 points, you could afford another kitted out mechanised veteran squad, plus a more efficient fast attack choice to take the sentinels' place (a hellhound variant, or a valk, or some scout sentinels)

Sorry to have a go at your choices, but no matter how cool you think they are, the numbers just don't add up. 5 stormtroopers rapid fire a unit of marines (in the open): 10 shots, 6.66 hits, 2.22 wounds. They're really just no good. Plasma cannon sentinels, I see the attraction myself, but they're overcosted. Those 2 vehicles cost as much as a LRBT! And they're nowhere near as survivable, 2 blasts are simply not worth it for that price.

Storm troopers definately need more than 5, and any one worth their weight in gold would not ignore them knowing they ap3. They're so easy to kill in a small unit.

If you do that your just using the transport as a firing bunker, for one weapon which is a waste. If you relocate, then you lose a turn of shooting.

If your hiding the demolishers behind a wall of a chimera then you cannot shoot the lascannon as only the turret can see over the top. If you can shoot the lascannon then your wall if flawed because if you can fire it, then it can get shot at. Heavy flamers on tanks are very affective, especially if the main weapon gets destroyed. I know the weapons don't match, but one lascannon isn't going to do a lot and a heavy flamer gurantee hits.

TBH, I have to agree what hunt the elderly says.

I can fire lascannon from a gap between two chimeras. I dont think it is a waste as chimera itself is very potent firing platform . Stormtroopers are there to hunt crisis suits and other small targets. Not full space marine squads. Ok i will drop the sentinels for a hellhound. And take other critics into account too (maybe) Here it is:

HQ: CCS (4 Plasma guns, Plasma pistol) 120
Chimera 55

Elites: Marbo 65

Troops: Vets (shotguns, 3 meltas) 100
Vets (shotguns, 3 meltas) 100
Vets (AC, 3 GL) 95
Vets (AC, 3 GL) 95
Vets (AC, 3 GL) 95
Vets (3 Flamers, shotguns, demolitions) 115
Chimera 55
Chimera 55
Chimera 55
Chimera 55

Fast attack: Hellhound 130
Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130

Heavy support: Demolisher (lascannon) 180
Demolisher (lascannon) 180
Manticore (Camo) 190

2000

6 fully-kitted veteran squads, full heavy and fast attack slots, I'd say the list is looking good.

I still say you could drop the camo on the manticore, and upgrade the demolishers' lascannons to multimelta sponsons, or you could swap one demolisher lascannon for a multimelta on the hellhound, but hey that's a difference in tactics. Good luck with the list!

Thanks. I just feel more comfortable sitting in 3+ cover with my manticore than in 4+. It makes huge difference since it will probaly be fire magnet. I think two melta squads in vendettas should do my day in terms of anti tank. In the end demolishers, autocannons and manticore can destroy a vehicle too. Now where am i supposed to take 18 shotguns... and loads of meltas and plasmas.

Looking better than previous but still needs some things ironing out.

It would be very helpful to mention some. I dont see any.

Perhaps read my previous posts?

Mercer dislikes the combination of AC/GL, and lascannons on tanks. Personally, I think it's not what I'd've chosen, but there's nothing wrong with it.

Well you've got auto cannons, in a transport. Transport is the key word. The chimeras are just being used as a firing bunker. The chimeras own weapons are shorter range than the auto cannon, so will need to move to get them into range - same with the grenades launchers. You cannot move and shoot the auto cannon. So would make sense to have the auto cannon static, and have weapons which are the same range. Or else a unit can sit out of range and take fire only from a auto cannon.

Lascannons on guard tanks with BS3 tend to miss more than hit. With a heavy bolter you get more shots, with a heavy flamer you don't even need to hit and don't get any cover either .

I think better choices could be taken creating better unit synergy and using units to their full potential

Hey, as I said, if it were me in the OP's position, I'd drop the camo, lascannons, autocannons and plasma pistol. That's 100 points. I'd buy 2 sets of multimelta sponsons, a multimelta for the hellhound, and upgrade the GLs on one veteran squad to meltas. (all this, because I think the list could do more against heavy armour at 2000 points)

BUT, it's the OP's choice, I can't say any of those options are really bad, if he thinks they suit his opponents and tactics (and he has defended those choices several times) then it's his right to take them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, this:

mercer wrote:
Lascannons on guard tanks with BS3 tend to miss more than hit.

made me chuckle, since BS3 weapons miss exactly as much as they hit.

Games are not played on huge boards so you will be in range of GL after one move, maybe without it. Heavy flamer will be present on some of the chimeras, heavy bolter doesnt share target type. Anti heavy tanks are: 2 squads of melta vets, 2 vendettas, 2 demolishers can do AT well. Manticore can somehow support AT too. Autocannons and GL can destroy low armoured transports. Multi lasers too. Thats 460 pts of pure anti tank and another 550 pts as support. Then we have the rest of the army excluding flamer squad who can deal with light vehicles.