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After reading about Gesso here and other forums I decided to give it a whirl... from start to 'finish' it's been a complete disaster.

First I tried several different applications. I tried just straight gesso, gesso with water, and gesso with thinner. In every case I had difficulty getting the stuff to really adhere to the 'newer' metal GW figures. It did seem to stick a little better on true pewter models (like the old gw models) however. Mind you, I cleaned these minis very well with soap and water before applying.

When I was finally satisfied with the gesso coverage, I gave my models a good two days to cure before I picked them up again as recommended per the big gesso article. From here things seemed to go ok at first. But unlike regular primer, one accidental brush with a finger won't just rub away the touched area - it will 'peel' back the gesso ruining a large area at one go. This happened to me many times and after many careful corrections I still have some lumpy areas due to this.

The last straw however was when I was carefully blending/glazing a weapon blade with very 'watery' paints. I can only guess that the water reacted with gesso and the undercoat started to wrinkle up and peel off of the mini. I had to scrape away the entire area with an exacto and try my best to not disturb the gesso layer around it. What a Fn nightmare!! So many hours of work pretty much down the drain and the final result of this mini will be greatly compromised because of the damned gesso broken layering.

Has anyone else had these experiences?

a friend of mine swears by paint on primer (not sure if it's gesso brand) but he only paints plastic minis. he hasn't had any problems though. did you clean the metal minis beforehand in vinegar and water? (or dishsoap?) perhaps you got a batch of metal minis where there was alot of oil or mold release agent.

warboss wrote:a friend of mine swears by paint on primer (not sure if it's gesso brand) but he only paints plastic minis. he hasn't had any problems though. did you clean the metal minis beforehand in vinegar and water? (or dishsoap?) perhaps you got a batch of metal minis where there was alot of oil or mold release agent.

Well I've never tried using vinegar... but I did wash these minis quite well with dishsoap and water and an old toothbrush.

Weird. I've never had problems with gesso. What brand was it?

What brand of Gesso? The first kind I bought was Daler Rowney and it sucked. It didn't give an even coat and didn't seem to shrink back like Gesso should. I had to make 4 super thin coats or I ended up with either a streaky poorly covered model or a blob.

I was going to give up, but since I'm in Canada and probably won't see a good priming day until the end of May, I went and bought a bottle of Liquitex. So far every mini I've tried has worked great. I've found a couple little tiny bubbles, but they are on Ork Boyz, so I'm not too worried. When I go to do something more important I'll spend a bit more time making sure it's right. (Looking at the models again, I'm having trouble even finding them now.. so I'm really not going to worry about it)

Anyways, I haven't tried them on metal, so I don't know if that's just a problem with metal, but I do know that not all gesso is equal. I swear by most things liquitex...

Gunzhard wrote:

warboss wrote:a friend of mine swears by paint on primer (not sure if it's gesso brand) but he only paints plastic minis. he hasn't had any problems though. did you clean the metal minis beforehand in vinegar and water? (or dishsoap?) perhaps you got a batch of metal minis where there was alot of oil or mold release agent.

Well I've never tried using vinegar... but I did wash these minis quite well with dishsoap and water and an old toothbrush.

the dishsoap works as well especially if you used a toothbrush. bad oil on the mini shouldn't be the cause in your case. the vinegar is what the historical minis old timers taught me when i got into minis gaming in the mid 90s.

http://brianscache.com/builds/tools.html

Liquitex is a good brand. I have actually been using the "Bob Ross" line of gessos, and they have worked perfectly on metal and plastic. I just glob it on there and let dry. Gesso shrinks as it dries. Come back a couple hours later and everything is good.

One thing to note, and this applies to all acrylic paints (including gesso), if you wash your models down with soap; make sure you get all that soapy residue off. Soap and paint don't mix.

I usually use black spraypaint, but I sometimes paint at work (helpdesk) and I can't do that here. On those nights I use Gesso (Liquitex) and it's been OK. In my case I found the gesso seems to seperate some - not dramatically, but it's thicker on the bottom and thinner on top and needs to be stirred well before using.

I can't vouch for any other brand as that's the only kind i've used.

hmm.. I was never one for washing models prior to painting.. and as of yet, haven't had a problem (well, I haven't washed plastics.. metals yes.. ) I bought some cleaning stuff from Costco called Pink Solution. It's not supposed to leave a residue.. I might have to try it out on some models and see if it does a good job..

I used Liquitex Neutral Gray Colored Gesso.

I honestly think the problem was my use of thin (watery) paints.

The watery paints took extremely long to dry on the gesso, as opposed to other primers. And as I mentioned previously, they even seemed to react with the gesso and cause it to wrinkle up and peel.

Anyone else use really thin paints (on top of gesso) ?

Gesso sounds like quite a problematic product. I just use cheap flat black spraypaint from Wal-Mart. It's ready in an hour, goes on thin and doesn't rub off. Never been one for all this cleaning of miniatures either, except for resin. Prime, paint and spray on a good matte finish and you shouldn't have any problems.

I swear by spray... now if someone could come show my how to get it to work in 0 degree weather with a 40kmp wind, I'd use it year round.. (the 0 degrees is just lately.. soon it'll be -20 or so )

I just don't have an option.. no garage and can't use the basement...

Some people complain about it, but GW spray primer has been great for me.

Spray primer is great. The only problem is that if you are in a cold climate like Canada or the northern US, using spray primer in the winter is usually not an option.

I usually use spray primer when I can - I only used Gesso here because it had rained all week. ...never again though.

I use the Liquitex gesso. If I want to thin it I use liquid acrylic polymer resin, to maintain the skinning properties. So far it has worked fine on polystyrene, metal and soft plastic models

You should leave gesso for 24 hours to get a proper cure. If you paint onto it before then you are putting on acrylic solvent.

I always wash models before priming. If I have a lot of them I just bung them in the dishwasher on a low heat setting.

If gesso doesn't work for you and you can't use spray because of weather, I'm sure there are other types of brush on primer.

Kilkrazy wrote:I use the Liquitex gesso. If I want to thin it I use liquid acrylic polymer resin, to maintain the skinning properties. So far it has worked fine on polystyrene, metal and soft plastic models

You should leave gesso for 24 hours to get a proper cure. If you paint onto it before then you are putting on acrylic solvent.

I always wash models before priming. If I have a lot of them I just bung them in the dishwasher on a low heat setting.

If gesso doesn't work for you and you can't use spray because of weather, I'm sure there are other types of brush on primer.

Well I'm quite sure I followed all the recommended procedure, per the giant Gesso article and as you've stated here. I ultimately used Gesso+water, but I had tried Gesso+Tamiya Thinner before that; do you think the acrylic polymer resin would make that much of a difference?

Killkrazy have you tried painting with really thin (watery) paints over a gesso primed mini? ...I honestly think this is where the biggest problem started for me, though all around I was not happy with my gesso experience.

jester1525 wrote:I swear by spray... now if someone could come show my how to get it to work in 0 degree weather with a 40kmp wind, I'd use it year round.. (the 0 degrees is just lately.. soon it'll be -20 or so )

I just don't have an option.. no garage and can't use the basement...

For a while I used to just get an apple box, flip it up on its side for a shroud, put it in the bathroom with the fan running and light a bunch of candles to prime. It was like a Satanic ritual in there every other night. Every so often you have to go and scrub down the walls or tub for wayward primer particles.

Gunzhard wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I use the Liquitex gesso. If I want to thin it I use liquid acrylic polymer resin, to maintain the skinning properties. So far it has worked fine on polystyrene, metal and soft plastic models

You should leave gesso for 24 hours to get a proper cure. If you paint onto it before then you are putting on acrylic solvent.

I always wash models before priming. If I have a lot of them I just bung them in the dishwasher on a low heat setting.

If gesso doesn't work for you and you can't use spray because of weather, I'm sure there are other types of brush on primer.

Well I'm quite sure I followed all the recommended procedure, per the giant Gesso article and as you've stated here. I ultimately used Gesso+water, but I had tried Gesso+Tamiya Thinner before that; do you think the acrylic polymer resin would make that much of a difference?

Killkrazy have you tried painting with really thin (watery) paints over a gesso primed mini? ...I honestly think this is where the biggest problem started for me, though all around I was not happy with my gesso experience.

Thinner (Tamiya or water) dilutes the paint including the pigment particles and the binder. Thinning with acrylic polymer and flo-aid dilutes the pigment but restores the binder, so the final skinning should be good. The binder is the stuff which when the water and solvent dries up, sticks the pigment particles into a film.

I don't paint with very thinned paints except for washes, and I mostly use shellack based inks for washes, which would not dissolve gesso anyway.

The amount of thinning you can do to gesso or paint depends on several factors and can't really be precisely communicated. It's a sort of 'suck it and see' approach which you gain experience in.

Gesso works for lots of people. I think you should try it with a different technique, less thinner, let it dry really hard (24 hours) and don't use heavily thinned paints on top.

If you can't get it to work, don't kill yourself, just use a different brush-on primer. Reaper make one.