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I need your advice guys , im not familiar with warhammer Fantasy and never played Wood Elves either ><
Flipping through the wood elf magic spells and enchanted items just confuses me even more.
But so far ( i think... ) the dryads , treekins , treeman seems really solid choice to have .
With the one major problem = enemy mages .

Here is the list so far

Core: 822 pts ( im guessing the archer's main purpose is to shoot off some rank bonus for enemy that is getting close )

12 Glade Guard , Musician , Standard : 162pts
12 Glade Guard , Musician , Standard : 162pts
8 Glade Riders , Musician 9pts , Standard 9pts : 210pts
8 Dryads : 96pts
8 Dryads : 96pts
8 Dryads : 96pts

Special: 585pts ( Toughness 5 , 3 wounds , 4+ armor save , 5+ ward save , im hoping these units will be able to do well against almost anything )

3 Treekin : 195pts
3 Treekin : 195pts
3 Treekin : 195pts

Rare:
Treeman : 285pts

So far its at 1692 / 2250 pts , leaving 558 points on characters.
Are there any sure way to build my Heroes that can 100% hunt enemy mages down?
( giant eagles? hail of doom arrows? what else should i use? )

Oh noes!!

I would drop the standards on all the Glade Guard and Rider units. They're generally not going to be seeing combat, and if they do they're basically giving away 100vp for free with those standards.

Alternative to 3x3 Treekin is 2x4, but your mileage may vary with them.

With an army with a treeman and lots of tree kin I like using a BSB to make sure they hold combat, while you manoeuvre round to the flanks etc.

Daba wrote:I would drop the standards on all the Glade Guard and Rider units. They're generally not going to be seeing combat, and if they do they're basically giving away 100vp for free with those standards.

Alternative to 3x3 Treekin is 2x4, but your mileage may vary with them.

With an army with a treeman and lots of tree kin I like using a BSB to make sure they hold combat, while you manoeuvre round to the flanks etc.

K , will drop the standard on those units .

Treekin you mean 2 units of 4? what advantage does it have?

standard bearer , should i put him on a mount? within a unit? or hide it in center of everything?

I sometimes run Treekin in a unit of 4, mainly because against some units I get more of a frontage, but also a bit of insurance against shooting.

3 is fine though, especially with more than 1 unit.

My BSB is run on foot, but has a bodyguard of Wardancers. Another popular build is to put her on an eagle, to get to where the BSB is needed but kept out of LOS/Danger.

One thing I see is there aren't many fast units, they can help quite a bit. I usually run Wild Riders, but not everyone does.

If you have a rare slot, an Eagle is nice (redirecting, march blocking etc) but you might want the rare slot for other things.

As Daba said, drop the Standards on all units that aren't meant to get into combat, they just give away another 100 VP's when killed in combat.

You want to take the Glade Guard in units of 10 (minimum), as they will take up less room so are a bit more maneauverable.

Glade Riders are meant to redirect and march block, and they do it equally well in a minimum sized unit (5).

I find Treekin to be very vulnerable to magic (especially Magic which is also Flaming, like Lore of Fire, Lore of Metal and Lore of Tzeentch). I don't find them good enough to warrant these disadvantages.

As for units that are guaranteed to cause Wizards trouble, there is no such unit. The best Wizards are often very well protected (either by joining a unit, like Slann Mage Priests in Temple Guard or Teclis in Phoenix Guard, or by having a very good Ward Save, like Kairos Fateweaver or a Pendant of Khaeleth wearing Supreme Sorceress). You absolutely need Dispel Dice and Dispel Scrolls to stand a chance, especially with an army as vulnerable to Magic as your army is.

I think you need to see Wood Elves less as a brute force army, and more of a conservative army (pick your fights you know you can win, kill some stuff by shooting and hide or run from the stuff you know you can't beat).

Wow! those are incredibly valuable advices thank you!
Seems like that i would have to invest in a mage or 2...

Are there any tips / tricks for using lore of athel loren?
especially tree singing?

Tree Singing is what the Lore of Athel Loren is all about. The spell really helps with dominating the Movement Phase (and therefore being able to decide where combats happen). Usually around here, there is one Wooded feature on the table, plus the Woods the Wood Elves player brings (maximum 6" diameter for this one). These two woods are enough to use Tree Singing to your advantage.

The most important Magic Item to take is the Calaingor's Stave. It allows you to cast Tree Singing more then once a turn with the same Mage. This should be taken on your highest level Mage, as it can benefit the most from it. When going for a Magic heavy approach, the setup that is taken a lot around here is: level 4 Spellweaver with Calaingor's Stave, 2 level 2 Spellsingers and usually a Treeman (or perhaps two). This will give you a lot of Tree Singing capability. Remember though, even when going Magic heavy, you always need a Dispel Scroll or two.

You can also take Mages solely for Magic Defense (which usually mean a level 1 Spellsinger with 2 Dispel Scrolls and a level 1 Branchwraith with a Cluster of Radiants). This gives you 5 Dispel Dice per turn and 2 Dispel Scrolls, which is fairly reasonable Magic Defense.

Drop some of the treekin and the best way to kill an enemy mage is just shoot like crazy.

FRENCHY147 wrote:Drop some of the treekin and the best way to kill an enemy mage is just shoot like crazy.

What if the mages are in large enemy blocks?

Jezus you guys give him good advice for mage hunting. What you want for mage hunting is eagle riders.

Here is why. take a unit of 3 no upgrades as its a waste on them. NEVER upgrade one to a unit champ. The reason for this is if you have a champ in the unit he could get pulled away by a challenge and then the eagles will die swiftly.

Now what you do with this 3 man mage hunting unit is charge the unit holding the mage. Position the eagle riders so you have 2 in combat with the mage. Designate all attacks with the 2 at the mage since she/he/it is in base to base with them. 4 attacks at ws4 and str 4 will in most cases kill off any mage. That is unless you roll crappy or he happens to be a deamon ogre or choas mage. They usually are armored pretty well.

For the more well gaurded mages your best hope would be to wittle it down with bow fire (paticularily if the mage is in a unit. You want to be able to get into b2b with them.) Then dump a unit of treeman into it. If you get 2 into b2b with it then you will have a very good chance of downing it with the 6 str 5 attacks.

Get 2 mages. one a scroll caddy the other with a dispel scroll and Calaingor's Stave. Don't bother upgrading them to level two at all. Its a waste of points. About the only thing you want to be casting is treesinging. Its your best hope to stay alive verses monstrous creatures like hydras and giants.

With airs mage build I have to say I don't really agree with it. The 70 points you would be spending on levels for the 2 mages can easily be spent on something more worth it.

Also our lord choices are beasts in combat even without armour. I feel the level 4 mage is a bit odd as your depriving yourself of some very good combat ability. Though you are trading it for treesinging so you could go either way I suppose.

One problem with wood elves is that everything we have is horribly expensive. And you need to spend those points wisely every turn or you will die. Wood elves are not a very forgiving army.

The only Lord choice I would consider besides the Spellweaver is the Treeman Ancient. He brings 2 bound Treesingings (though they are only power level 3), while being able to deal with a lot of Characters in combat (Annoyance of Netlings). He is very vulnerable to Flaming Attacks though, so taking him is a risk (especially since currently everyone is trying to bring Flaming Attacks to counter all the Regeneration). The Highborn isn't what I would call a combat beast. He will lose to most other Lord choices and probably won't be able to deal with most Monsters (War Hydra's, Hell Pit Abominations) as well. So basically, he won't be killing anything that your other units aren't able to kill. This is why I think the Highborn is a waste.

As for Mage hunting Warhawk Riders, I think they are expensive for what they do. The chances to actually get into combat with that Wizard are actually pretty slim, and 120 points seems a bit much for march blockers. If you are wanting to charge an enemy unit containing a Wizard, the opponent will obviously see it coming. It doesn't take much shooting or magic to wipe the Warhawk Rider unit out. Not to mention enemy units being able to block your charge (positioning in such a way that your Warhawk Riders won't have LoS to the Wizard's unit).

I don't agree with you that the Level 2 upgrades are a waste of points either. If you bring just two level 1 Wizards (one with Calaingor's Stave) to a 2000 points game, they won't cast anything all game. You have 4 Power Dice, the opponent will have at least the same amount of Dispel Dice. Calaingor's Stave is also fairly useless in this Wizard set up. Your Scroll caddy will need 2 Power Dice to reliably get Treesinging off, leaving two for your Wizard carrying Calaingor's Stave. He too needs 2 Power Dice to reliably get Treesinging off, hence Calaingor's Stave only effects the outcome of the spell, as the Wizard won't be casting Treesinging more then once a turn. Casting on one Power Dice is a bad option, as it will result in only a slight increase of casts (on average), while the casting level of these succeses is dramatically decreased, making it even easier for your opponent to Dispel your casts.

Airmaniac wrote:The only Lord choice I would consider besides the Spellweaver is the Treeman Ancient. He brings 2 bound Treesingings (though they are only power level 3), while being able to deal with a lot of Characters in combat (Annoyance of Netlings). He is very vulnerable to Flaming Attacks though, so taking him is a risk (especially since currently everyone is trying to bring Flaming Attacks to counter all the Regeneration). The Highborn isn't what I would call a combat beast. He will lose to most other Lord choices and probably won't be able to deal with most Monsters (War Hydra's, Hell Pit Abominations) as well. So basically, he won't be killing anything that your other units aren't able to kill. This is why I think the Highborn is a waste.

It doesn't take much shooting or magic to wipe anything in the army out

A lord with altar, great weapon, amber pendant and blight of terrors played well can wipe whole units off the table soley by himself. It becomes even easier with a unit of anything crashing into the side of the unit with him as well. You dont have to fight the lord if you plan well. Just making the unit run is enough to net yourself some very good points.

Also I dislike putting a lord choice into something as big and as venerable as a treeman. All it takes is one bolt thrower or cannon ball to deprive yourself of 400 points (that includes upgrades) Id think differently if you could give him something more then a 5+ ward save as then your not relying on luck of the roll to keep him around another turn.

Also I fixed your second paragraph for you.

Golga, Warhawk riders are 6 T3 Wounds, which is a lot easier to kill then almost any other unit in the Wood Elves army, as almost any unit either has more Wounds for the same points cost, has a higher Thoughness, or has a Ward Save. Even if they aren't being shot, their charge will still be blocked by any opponent by simply blocking LoS to the Wizard's unit. But I guess it says enough that you don't really come with a counter argument, but instead feel the need to bring up something totally irrelevant to the discussion (namely: all Wood Elves are vulnerable to shooting and magic).

Guys , i dont have any warhawk riders ><

Airmaniac wrote:Golga, Warhawk riders are 6 T3 Wounds, which is a lot easier to kill then almost any other unit in the Wood Elves army, as almost any unit either has more Wounds for the same points cost, has a higher Thoughness, or has a Ward Save. Even if they aren't being shot, their charge will still be blocked by any opponent by simply blocking LoS to the Wizard's unit. But I guess it says enough that you don't really come with a counter argument, but instead feel the need to bring up something totally irrelevant to the discussion (namely: all Wood Elves are vulnerable to shooting and magic).

Im just saying you make them seem like the only thing in the army venerable to Shooting. Which is untrue as wood elves suffer more to magic and shooting then any other army in the game. And if your opponent is actually going to put a unit in front of his to block line of sigh you have saved yourself from magic missles for the turn, left there flank open or atleast made it so your opponent is not marching something towards you which could become a problem.

And well if they cannot go and kill a mage then they are far from useless. Go after warmachines with them. They can be used to cut rank bonuses with flank charges (which is invaluble to an army that has almost no ranks or standards) or be used to march block. Also the more you can stop your opponent from marching in that valuable 15 inch range for your bowman will make it all the more easier to win.

The more shots you get in a game the better off you will be. Warhawk riders give you another turn or two of shooting unless your playing something like brits who can get across the board in one turn. Even if they dont kill a single thing in the game you still can easily earn your points back with them. The ability to be excellent mage/bsb hunters when the opportunity presents itself is just a plus to them.

Also you seem to be relying on alot of 5 and 6 ward saves. And the high toughness of the tree folk in your games. Which to me is a fools folly. They cannot save you forever. And they will not.

And please give me a few examples not including glade guard or dryads that fit your more wounds same cost category. Other then those 2 units im not seeing them and war hawk riders are alot more versatile then either of them.

One question though. If they are so bad why is almost every army posted on dakka for we have atleast one unit of them? I think your underestimating them air.

And you should get them luna. A wood elf army is weaker for not having them. Our mobility and ability to get flank charges is one of the few things that save this army. Warhawk riders will provide this.

Warhawk Riders can't land in Forests, which is a huge disadvantage for a Wood Elves unit. Warhawk Riders can not cut rank bonusses with flank charges, as they operate as Skirmishers, so they never break ranks.

So basically, you agree that they are only situationally good for Wizard hunting (meaning only if the opponent is stupid enough). Their other duties are March blocking and Warmachine hunting. There are other Wood Elves unit that can March block very well (Glade Riders for example). So, you are just taking the Warhawk Riders for their Warmachine hunting ability. In my opinion, they just cost to much for what they do.

And as to:

Golga wrote:And please give me a few examples not including glade guard or dryads that fit your more wounds same cost category. Other then those 2 units im not seeing them and war hawk riders are alot more versatile then either of them.

Eternal Guard and Wardancer Troupes.
Besides these two, Waywatchers are less vulnerable to shooting (negative to hit modifiers), Treekin are less vulnerable to shooting (high thoughness value), Wild Riders are less vulnerable to shooting (5+ Ward Save) and Great Eagles are less vulnerable to shooting (point for point, due to Thoughness 4). So basically what is left, is just Glade Riders being a little bit more vulnerable to shooting then Warhawk Riders. Glade Riders however, can hide in forests, do have the ability to break ranks on a flank charge, are better redirecting units, shoot better (point for point) and are equally good March blockers.

I can only get 3 warhawk riders T-T ( 4th lord rides on one? )

In my opinion, Warhawk Riders aren't a compulsory choice at all. They don't fill a role in the army that no other unit can fill. Just make sure you have enough units to March block, Redirect and hunt Warmachines and you'll be fine.

Warmachines aren't that good against Wood Elves anyway, due to Wood Elves taking cover in forests a lot.

Could you post the army list you are currently think of LunaHound?

Airmaniac wrote:In my opinion, Warhawk Riders aren't a compulsory choice at all. They don't fill a role in the army that no other unit can fill. Just make sure you have enough units to March block, Redirect and hunt Warmachines and you'll be fine.

Warmachines aren't that good against Wood Elves anyway, due to Wood Elves taking cover in forests a lot.

Could you post the army list you are currently think of LunaHound?

The list i have is pretty much the same as the first one i first listed ( minus missing 12 dryads >< )
with the possibility of 3 more warhawks comming in ( might get it for how they look , not what they do though )
*drools ...

Airmaniac wrote:

Warmachines aren't that good against Wood Elves anyway, due to Wood Elves taking cover in forests a lot.

Could you post the army list you are currently think of LunaHound?

Oh? Organ gun maybe?

But yes made both our points. Agree with air on the army list. Got a new one in mind luna?

Also who makes those? I want them now to.

Golga wrote:

Airmaniac wrote:

Warmachines aren't that good against Wood Elves anyway, due to Wood Elves taking cover in forests a lot.

Could you post the army list you are currently think of LunaHound?

Oh? Organ gun maybe?

But yes made both our points. Agree with air on the army list. Got a new one in mind luna?

Also who makes those? I want them now to.

I cant think of any variations as the units wont change much ( because thats all there is to the army )
so hmm... Lords and Heroes on giant eagles ( good / bad ? ) Confused if i should make them strong at CC , or strong at Shooting.

The only possible addition to the list would be
4 way watchers
6 more tree kins ( 5 units of 3? )
or one more treeman

The warhawks are from a company called " Gamezone Miniatures"

I rather like a Noble on a Great Eagle. He is a decent Warmachine hunter (like Warhawk Riders) and the Great Eagle also gives him a lot more Movement on the turn you fire Hail of Doom Arrow. He can't join units (except Warhawk Riders) and can't land in forests though, which can be a problem.

If you decide to go with two Treemen, then you'll want a BSB to support them.

I prefer the bodinks combo for my lords with a great weapon to back him up. Then you could go either way with the amber pendant or give him some spites. Netlings is one of the better ones if you plan on getting in alot of challenges. Either way you have some points ot fiddle around with.

bsb are good on hawks as they can get to where there needed to go.

And go with more treeman instead of the waywatchers. there good in units of 7 I find but not more or less.

I'll do a detailed breakdown. Some of this has been said above but it bears repeating.

LunaHound wrote:
Core: 822 pts ( im guessing the archer's main purpose is to shoot off some rank bonus for enemy that is getting close )

12 Glade Guard , Musician , Standard : 162pts
12 Glade Guard , Musician , Standard : 162pts
8 Glade Riders , Musician 9pts , Standard 9pts : 210pts
8 Dryads : 96pts
8 Dryads : 96pts
8 Dryads : 96pts

Drop the Standards and maybe bring the Glade Guard units down to 10 and the Glade Riders down to 6 (8 is useless, you don't even get a rank bonus).

Special: 585pts ( Toughness 5 , 3 wounds , 4+ armor save , 5+ ward save , im hoping these units will be able to do well against almost anything )

3 Treekin : 195pts
3 Treekin : 195pts
3 Treekin : 195pts

I don't have any experience with these but you may want to consider some Wardancers instead of one of the units. Wardancers are a great distraction and can get an ungodly amount of attacks. Combined with a Dryad charge or a flank charge by the Glade Riders they can wipe large units.

Rare:
Treeman : 285pts

Treeman have single-handedly won games for me. They contribute in every phase (don't forget about their root attacks, I've wiped out flanking fast cav with this before) and cause Terror. Great to anchor on a flank or lead a charge. Great Eagles are pretty cheap so you may want to add one for general nuisance factor.

So far its at 1692 / 2250 pts , leaving 558 points on characters.
Are there any sure way to build my Heroes that can 100% hunt enemy mages down?
( giant eagles? hail of doom arrows? what else should i use? )

Wood Elves are one of the few armies where their characters don't shine as much as their regular dudes. Some things to consider are an Alter Kindred Hero with Hail of Doom, Great Weapon, and Helm of the Hunt. Great lone hunter. Also consider a lvl 4 caster or a pair of lvl 2's. Nobles and other heroes aren't really necessary. Another option is to upgrade your Treeman to an Ancient and then choose from an Alter Hero, a BSB, or 1 or 2 Lvl 2's (or a Lvl 2 and a lvl 1 Branchwraith). Will give you decent Magic defense and more Tree Singing.