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Just reading about various and had a quick thought....

What if the 70 odd surviving Space Marines from the Eisenstein didn't die, we know Garro and IACTON QRUZE went off to found the ORDOS XENOS.

What about the other Loyalist Marines...If they wanted to fight, they wouldn't welcome anywhere else or in other legions, so it would make sense they would form a small Cadre. They were Damned by the actions of their former comrades, but wished to fight on and prove their Loyalty. What if they were the.....

LEGION OF THE DAMNED....

I think it fits the fluff, Any thoughts ?

The LotD are the remains of the Fire Hawks so... no.

Thats not proven. Its alluded to, but not actually proven or laid down as fact.

EXTRACT FROM THE LEXICANIUM

The Legion of the Damned are a mysterious band of Space Marines, probably the remnants of the destroyed Fire Hawks chapter. They were introduced in White Dwarf 99 and occasionally made appearances in later editions of Warhammer 40K. They could be used by an Imperial army as an allied force, and fought as a single unit. The Games Workshop website presently has a datasheet for using the Legion of the Damned in games of Apocalypse. They are also available as an elites choice for 5th Edition Space Marines.

Probably does not Equal = FACT. I've read the fluff at Lexicanium and alot of it doesn't make sense and furthermore are we to believe that 2 SM were taken from the EISENSTEIN and the rest murdered to stop the taint spreading?

What about it doesn't make sense? The fact that LotD bodies that are recovered are wearing Fire Hawk's issued gear. Or that they have left behind Fire Hawk's banners after victories? Or that the fact they're what's left of the Fire Hawks was spelled out pretty much officially in the very magazine article that introduced them?

What exactly about that is ambiguous?

I do concur with Tyyr, the fates of the Eisenstein marines is certainly ambiguous, but the LoD are in my opinion (and probably most folk you ask as well, including GW and BL) the remnants of The Fire Hawks

Read WD#99 and there is no doubt.

Ok ambiguities,

1. The periodicity of the Plague they are supposedly suffering from is frankly ridiculous. It says its symptoms became obvious in months.

The original survivors numbered two hundred brethren. Slowly they began to die. Within days of the transition into normal space it became obvious that the chapter had been exposed to some form of dangerous mutation or disease. It took many years to navigate a way back into the Imperium, during which time almost half the brethren succumbed to the malady.

Now, not being an expert in time, but in 40K it takes months to get from one part of space to another and War is constantly shifting. I think it would be fair to say that they would have a Decade maybe 2 before they are wiped out? If so how the hell are they moving all over the known universe? They must number about 100 souls and add in that they are not invincible after third or fouth major engagement they would be down to a mere handful, plus they keep succumbing to the disease.....

I freely admit that WD 99 has details on this, so i will pipe down and get back in my Box

I think the LotD were not thought through and were a throw away piece of fluff that stuck. We see a lot of this in the 40K universe.

I think the remaining loyalists from the traitor legions were made into the Gray Knights. Not sure though.

I doubt it. The Grey Knights were created after the Heresy, not immediately after it.

Besides, they'd have all had to have been psykers, which is doubtful.

Can't believe you guys are quoting from WD 99, of all places....hell, you know GW changes its fluff like a clean guy changes his socks!

Codex Space Marines is the new cannon for LotD, so if the page dedicated to the LotD in the Codex is anything to go by, then it is not proven that the Fire Hawks are the LotD.

However, refering to the OP, I don't think your idea works either, as those that weren't killed during the fighting on the Eisenstein were then placed in custody of the Imperium....after that, it all goes quiet.

Delephont wrote:Can't believe you guys are quoting from WD 99, of all places....hell, you know GW changes its fluff like a clean guy changes his socks!

Codex Space Marines is the new cannon for LotD, so if the page dedicated to the LotD in the Codex is anything to go by, then it is not proven that the Fire Hawks are the LotD.

CSM doesn't say their not the Fire Hawks either. I wouldn't call it a retcon unless contradictory information is presented which its not. For all intents and purposes the LotD are the Fire Hawks until said otherwise. The lack of reference in CSM isn't really enough to go out and say that they're not the Fire Hawks anymore.

Just because it doesn't say exactly that Fire Hawks -> LotD doesn't mean that it isn't true. There is nothing suggested to be more likely to be true in the case of the LotD, so it would be unreasonable to jump to a conclusion that has even less evidence.

Delephont wrote:Can't believe you guys are quoting from WD 99, of all places....hell, you know GW changes its fluff like a clean guy changes his socks!

Codex Space Marines is the new cannon for LotD, so if the page dedicated to the LotD in the Codex is anything to go by, then it is not proven that the Fire Hawks are the LotD.

Yeah, fluff changes, in this case absolutely nothing has changed. Unless I'm completely off my rocker nothing in CSM contradicts WD#99. Therefore WD#99 is still kosher. Until they publish something new that contradicts WD#99 it's still the best source we've got on the LotD.

You guys are bickering like a bunch of inquisitors.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:You guys are bickering like a bunch of inquisitors.

Oh heavens no. Save that one for when we're ordering orbital bombardments and excommunicating one another

Seriously, until someone starts dying and taking entire hives with them it's not an inquisitor argument.

You seem awfully sure there Tyyr...EXTERMINATUS!!!!

Lord of Hats, nice Laughing man Avatar

So Ok, the EISENSTEIN got wasted with the traitor/loyalist/(were not quite sure but we ain't taking risks) boys. How did CRUZE and that get off and meet Malcador the Sigilite and start most the Inquisition !

Any takers? Round One Fight!

mwnciboo wrote:Lord of Hats, nice Laughing man Avatar

So Ok, the EISENSTEIN got wasted with the traitor/loyalist/(were not quite sure but we ain't taking risks) boys. How did CRUZE and that get off and meet Malcador the Sigilite and start most the Inquisition !

Any takers? Round One Fight!

I'm sorry, have you even read Flight of The Eisenstein? If you haven't then I'm not going to bother pointing out what's wrong with your statement, go read the book before asking daft questions. And if you have, then a tiny piece of my soul just died at you total misunderstanding of it.

LordofHats wrote:

Dal'yth Dude wrote:You guys are bickering like a bunch of inquisitors.

Oh heavens no. Save that one for when we're ordering orbital bombardments and excommunicating one another

I was thinking more along the lines of arguing an interpretation of an objective fact, not the physical confrontation that arises from it.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:

LordofHats wrote:

Dal'yth Dude wrote:You guys are bickering like a bunch of inquisitors.

Oh heavens no. Save that one for when we're ordering orbital bombardments and excommunicating one another

I was thinking more along the lines of arguing an interpretation of an objective fact, not the physical confrontation that arises from it.

That seems like a reasonable statement... *presses orbital bombardment button*