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In a game last night we a question came up what happens when a Land Raider tank shocks a Greater Deamon. From looking at the rulebook it didn't say anything about it so we had to treat it like any other unit. Pass a leadership test or it flees. If it tries death or glory and fails it dies.... Didn't sounds right at all but that's all we had to go on

Any thoughts or something we missed on this?

Other than the fact that greater daemons are fearless, so automatically pass all morale checks (which a tank shock causes, it's more specific than a leadership test), you've pretty much got it right.

If the monstrous creature fails to get a penetrating hit or fails to stop the vehicle (with a shaken\stunned result, immobilized result or a destroyed result) then yes the monstrous creature is run over and removed from the table.

rogueeyes wrote:If the monstrous creature fails to get a penetrating hit or fails to stop the vehicle (with a shaken\stunned result, immobilized result or a destroyed result) then yes the monstrous creature is run over and removed from the table.

But, since all the monstrous creatures I can think of are fearless (aside from Inquisitor Karamazov?) it would be foolish not to simply get out of the way, unless it's the last turn of the game and you're trying to prevent a scoring unit from reaching an objective.

willydstyle wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:If the monstrous creature fails to get a penetrating hit or fails to stop the vehicle (with a shaken\stunned result, immobilized result or a destroyed result) then yes the monstrous creature is run over and removed from the table.

But, since all the monstrous creatures I can think of are fearless (aside from Inquisitor Karamazov?) it would be foolish not to simply get out of the way, unless it's the last turn of the game and you're trying to prevent a scoring unit from reaching an objective.

Inquisitor Karamazov has Iron will and can choose to succeed or fail any leadership test.

Also you are correct in your thinking. There are other times such as when the MC has only 1 wound left and is facing something that has a huge points value such as a land raider, where it makes sense to take the gamble. Remember that this is exactly what this is. Most MCs will have an easy time getting a penetrating hit with S + 2D6 for armor penetration. Then it comes down to a D6 roll to see what happens. Like I said a gamble.

It was turn 5 and the Land Raider was trying to contest an objective, didn't think about the fearless thing, but I think the SM player tried to do something else instead of the tank shock. It just sounded odd that the Forgeworld Nurgle Daemon Prince model would get pushed out of the way of a Land Raider and if it tried death or glory and failed it was dead.

Thems the rules I suppose

I don't think it would feel nice to get hit by a land raider, no matter how big you are (imperator titans get a pass on this statement).

*adds to my list*

You can't take FNP against failed DOG either


Edit: wording correction.

General_Chaos wrote:It was turn 5 and the Land Raider was trying to contest an objective, didn't think about the fearless thing, but I think the SM player tried to do something else instead of the tank shock. It just sounded odd that the Forgeworld Nurgle Daemon Prince model would get pushed out of the way of a Land Raider and if it tried death or glory and failed it was dead.

Would be like speeding a hummer through a sizeable, damp compost heap.

As you do.

But, since all the monstrous creatures I can think of are fearless (aside from Inquisitor Karamazov?) it would be foolish not to simply get out of the way, unless it's the last turn of the game and you're trying to prevent a scoring unit from reaching an objective.

To be honest, i think someone needs a new play style if they start ramming MC's
Lets face it, most fex's will just crush them (S9 + 2D6 = average of 16)

I would only chance it if it was a land raider against something not so deadly, maybe a LOC? lol.
But ramming a thirster really isnt smart.

Actually, a Carnifex has only a 51.9% chance of destroying a land raider on a death or glory attack.

Well even the strongest creatures can fall to Death-Or-Glory. I killed the Nightbringer after he epically failed his penetration rolls. He was ran over by a Leman Russ Executioner.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Actually, a Carnifex has only a 51.9% chance of destroying a land raider on a death or glory attack.

Against a vehicle with extra armor, the best any MC can do is 50% to stop the vehicle, because shaken, stunned, or weapon destroyed results will do nothing.

50 points for a rhino to have a 50% chance to kill-outright any MC in the game is a pretty sweet deal.

The moral of this story is: never DoG with an MC, unless it's an absolute last-ditch maneuver that will win you the game.

it's not terribley difficult for even the most powerful MCs to fail a DoG. Sure they practically auto-pen, but you still have to roll that all important 4+ to succeed (Immob, Wreck, Destroy). If I had my way I'd have MC's do AP1 is CC...

BlueDagger wrote:it's not terribley difficult for even the most powerful MCs to fail a DoG. Sure they practically auto-pen, but you still have to roll that all important 4+ to succeed (Immob, Wreck, Destroy). If I had my way I'd have MC's do AP1 is CC...

With auto-attacking rear armor, I think that MCs are actually already pretty well balanced in anti-vehicle capability. However, I think that a successful CC rend should do +1 to the damage table (I wouldn't want to call it AP1, since CC attacks don't have AP, you'll be opening up a rules-inconsistency), if it also successfully penetrates. It would give rending claws a purpose on the carnifex.

I see it this way...

Armor Penetration 1 - This weapon is so powerful it tears a hole right through the vehicle

MC CC - This attack is so powerful it gets a 2D6 penetration

Tau shoots a beam of energy from the rail gun and tears a tank clear in half. IMO should = A wraithlord swings his wraithsword and cuts a tank in half.

But then again I have issues with the whole AP infantry <> AP tank it the first place. lol

The summoned greater daemon is S6 plus 2d6 and hits the front armor (doesn't matter in the case of a landraider though of course). So the daemon would need to roll a 9 on 2d6 to penetrate so the odds of stopping the tank are only 12.5 percent.

G

willydstyle wrote:I don't think it would feel nice to get hit by a land raider, no matter how big you are (imperator titans get a pass on this statement).

Yet the imperator titan can get taken down by 140ish point carnifexes with relative ease. The joys of 40k

... any one got any idea what would happen if a farseer used eldrid storm and manage to spin a tank round so it would no long hit the unit?

Eldrich Storm wouldn't stop him from being crushed unless it got a damage table result amounting to a stop.

Yea I saw a carnifex fail its d or g last week against a rhino. Haha!