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Hey everyone, I wanted some feedback on a local rules SNAFU.

A local player is very adamant about being able to shoot out of a trukk if the trukk moves 12". He says that because the restriction for not shooting if the vehicle moves faster than 6" is in the fire point rules, and that open-topped vehicles do not have fire points, he can fire if the trukk moves 12". He doesn't further extrapolate that the lack of restriction would actually allow you to fire even if the open-topped vehicle goes flat out, which I think is a logical inconsistency.

If you look in the ork codex, it says "fire points: open topped."

In addition, the rules for open-topped vehicles state that the vehicles don't have "specific fire points" which in my reading actually implies that the vehicles do use the fire points rules, but they just don't have to measure from any specific point.

Short of it:

I think that open-topped vehicles are restricted by the fire points rules of not firing if the vehicle goes cruising speed.

He thinks that open-topped vehicles do not have fire points, so they can fire if the vehicle moves cruising speed (though he does not claim that they can fire if the vehicle moves flat out).

What do you think?

As I read it, you are correct.
/shrug

I agree with you willydstyle. If a transport moves at anything other than combat speed, units cannot fire (as they are holding on for support, or in the case of orks, for dear life).
However, if the trukk has red paint, I believe that the trukk can move 1 extra inch (for a total of 7 inches) and still have units able to fire.

Does that help?

Cheers

"A local player" needs to meet with Mr Brick and Mrs Pillowcase. Open topped vehicles use the rules for firepoints, they just have the ability to allow as many models as are embarked to use them with the range measured from any part of the hull.

When both Kirsanth and Gwar! agree with me, I feel like I'm on the right track.

I was already pretty sure that I was in the right, but I wanted some feedback to make sure that I wasn't just interpreting the rules the way I wanted them to be.

As a disclaimer, I've played against this guy once, and refuse to play him any more because he's just no fun to play against, but he keeps telling people in the store bad rules.

willydstyle wrote:I was already pretty sure that I was in the right, but I wanted some feedback to make sure that I wasn't just interpreting the rules the way I wanted them to be.

As a disclaimer, I've played against this guy once, and refuse to play him any more because he's just no fun to play against, but he keeps telling people in the store bad rules.

Refer him to page 66, 3rd paragraph under 'Fire Points'; "Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn." {emphasis mine}

Open topped or not, this pretty much covers firing from moving vehicles.

time wizard wrote:

willydstyle wrote:I was already pretty sure that I was in the right, but I wanted some feedback to make sure that I wasn't just interpreting the rules the way I wanted them to be.

As a disclaimer, I've played against this guy once, and refuse to play him any more because he's just no fun to play against, but he keeps telling people in the store bad rules.

Refer him to page 66, 3rd paragraph under 'Fire Points'; "Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn." {emphasis mine}

Open topped or not, this pretty much covers firing from moving vehicles.

I know, but he claims that rule is specific to vehicles with fire points, and that open-topped vehicles simply don't have fire points at all.

willydstyle wrote:
I know, but he claims that rule is specific to vehicles with fire points, and that open-topped vehicles simply don't have fire points at all.

Well, you could point out to him that the paragraph doesn't mention fire points.

There is also the section that you quoted, that open toppped have no specific fire points, that rule also says that all passengers may shoot. So wee go back to the rule that says that no passengers may shoot if the vehicle moves at cruising speed.

Then you tell him that the rule book contains many sections but has to be taken as a whole, which is why it will hurt more when he shoves it!

willydstyle wrote:
I know, but he claims that rule is specific to vehicles with fire points, and that open-topped vehicles simply don't have fire points at all.

The sentence doesn't say that open topped vehicles don't have fire points, or don't use the rules for fire points. The sentence says that open topped vehicles "don't have specific fire points" and then in the next sentence explains what that statement means. Nothing in those two sentences abridges the third paragraph under Fire Points to not apply.