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I'm trying to come up with a plan for all the models I eventually want to get for Apocalypse games. With the 1st company formation and multiple formations that can be applied to the same models, I really don't want to be wasteful in buying unnecessary models.

The Terminator Titanhammer Squad will require 10 thunder hammer terminators. Obviously, I want some lightning claws as well. I could end up getting 10 of each for assault terminators.

Here's the tricky part. The Deathknell Orbital Strike Force says that you need terminator squads. My question: can the lightning claw terminators fulfill part of this requirement?

Please don't go on about how it's Apoc and I should just discuss it with my opponent. I want to get a good idea about whether most people think this would be fine or have a problem with it.

By RAW, no you can't. The formation uses Terminator Squads, which do not have the option to purchase lightning claws. Compar it to the Titanhammer squad, which specifically calls for Assault Terminator Squads.

Sure you can It's apocalypse. GW even gives you blank data sheets so you can make up whatever you want to. if you don't want to use that one just make another one where you can.

orkcommander wrote:Sure you can It's apocalypse.

As a house rule, yes.

As per the actual rules, no. The options are as printed on the datasheets.

I'm fairly certain that models can only belong to one datasheet.

Apocalypse isn't a stand alone game it's more of a rough guideline just like planet strike. It's a fun game that NEEDS discussion before you play. It isn't meant for tournaments or for people that can't fun playing a game where everything isn't spelled out in a rule book as black or white.

orkcommander wrote:It isn't meant for tournaments or for people that can't fun playing a game where everything isn't spelled out in a rule book as black or white.

Neither is 40k according to Jervis.

RustyKnight wrote:I'm fairly certain that models can only belong to one datasheet.

Its so simple.

With the blank data sheet that GW gives me to play the game with I write one up with all the same stuff that a deathknell orbital strike force has but instead of terminators I put assault terminators on it. Wam bam thank you mam now it's all legal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gwar! wrote:

orkcommander wrote:It isn't meant for tournaments or for people that can't fun playing a game where everything isn't spelled out in a rule book as black or white.

Neither is 40k according to Jervis.

I never said 40k was.

thebetter1 wrote:I'm trying to come up with a plan for all the models I eventually want to get for Apocalypse games. With the 1st company formation and multiple formations that can be applied to the same models, I really don't want to be wasteful in buying unnecessary models.

The Terminator Titanhammer Squad will require 10 thunder hammer terminators. Obviously, I want some lightning claws as well. I could end up getting 10 of each for assault terminators.

Here's the tricky part. The Deathknell Orbital Strike Force says that you need terminator squads. My question: can the lightning claw terminators fulfill part of this requirement?

Please don't go on about how it's Apoc and I should just discuss it with my opponent. I want to get a good idea about whether most people think this would be fine or have a problem with it.

Terminator squads are not Assault terminators, so they would need to be the normal terminators for that datasheet.

(Is this where I insert some inane comment about something you specifically said no to in the OP?)

orkcommander wrote:With the blank data sheet that GW gives me to play the game with I write one up with all the same stuff that a deathknell orbital strike force has but instead of terminators I put assault terminators on it. Wam bam thank you mam now it's all legal.

It's not 'legal' unless your opponent/s agree to it. But even if they do, it's still just a house rule.


The fact that Apocalypse is written with a bit of leeway for creating house rules where required has no bearing on the actual rules. Not least because the regular 40K rules are written with the exact same philosophy.

If someone is asking about how the rules work, pointing out potential house rules is fine, so long as you also address the actual rules. Derailing the thread just to point out that the game is intended to be altered to suit yourself is a waste of everyone's time.

I see your point but I’m not derailing the thread. I really believe that the blank data sheets are just as valid as the ones in GW’s books and web site. I also believe that your opponent still has to agree to use any of the GW sheets anyways. It might say it somewhere but I can’t find it now, that the website sheets are actually official.

Apocalypse is a game of agreeing and leeway and it’s the only way it can really be played.

orkcommander wrote: I really believe that the blank data sheets are just as valid as the ones in GW’s books and web site.

They're not, because they're house rules.


Here's how it works:
GW prints a 40K rulebook. The rules in that book are the rules for standard games of 40K. You are free to modify those rules, and GW even mention as much in the book... but when discussing the rules of the game, the only 'valid' rules for discussion are the actual rules as printed in the book. Because anything else is a house rule.

The exact same can be said for Apocalypse. It's written with the exact same design principles as regular 40K: ie, Here are the rules, do with them what you will. It bears the extra caveat that somethings may not work quite right in Apocalypse, because they were designed with regular games in mind. It does not suggest that you just throw the rulebook out the window. The rules are as presented in the book. What you do with them is, as in regular games, up to you... but as for regular games, house rules are not valid when discussing the actual rules of the game.

I also believe that your opponent still has to agree to use any of the GW sheets anyways.

In so far as your opponent has to agree to play the game in the first place, and is entitled to suggest changes to the rules, that would be correct.

But that's really as far as it goes.

It's also not relevant to YMDC, unless the topic is specifically asking for how people play it rather than what the rules actually say.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Meanwhile, my apologies to thebetter1 for my own part in derailing the thread here. But this habit of answering Apocalypse questions with 'Meh, do what you want' is annoying and not at all what this forum is for.

@insaniak
Thanks for the reply I really wasn't trying to make waves.