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Do you focus on one or the other with your SM's? Which Chapter is best for Close Combat and why?

Marines (codex) cannot focus on their element... they need a mix of both in their armies, because they can't do either better than a dedicated force.

black templars, blood angels, and space wolves are good up close.

codex marines (ultramarines) are better blended.

Black templars got a good thing of close combat going, but I hear they need a new codex, along with blood angels?
As for whats best, it all depends on how you want to go at it. Space wolves have that handy counter attack special rule, while templars foot troops will move forward with every shot, and blood angels have death companys. Vanilla marines though you really have to mix up everything to get the best use out of them. And after reading what I wrote Horst already went with this.... Good job Horst!

But with a mixed force, how do you avoid getting overwhelmed by a dedicated force?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I wanted a mobile army that leans towards Close Combat, should I find a different army?

a dedicated force is the easiest prey.. you will either dominate him in hand to hand or in shooting.

if you dominate him in shooting, its easier to win. simply shoot at him as he comes to you, and when he gets close enough, deny him the charge and charge him instead. hopefully you thinned him out enough on the way in to even the odds in hand to hand.

if you dominate him in hand to hand, your only real option is to get in there and mix it up. this is against armies like guard and tau... you just need to take the fight to him with bolters and krak grenades. mech marines are probably the best for this, drop pods aren't a good idea as you'll have a turn at least where your bombarded by enemy fire.


normally, I use at least 1 ten man tac squad in a rhino, and a squad of terminators in a land raider. against the assault-oriented armies, I move the raider backwards, firing lascannons as I go, with the tac marines behind in support., firing their weapons. as the enemy gets closer, you wait until he's about 15" away, then charge him with the raider, and take the fight to him with assault terminators.

against a shooty opponent, I put the tac marines in the land raider, deep strike the terminators, and use the extra rhino to provide cover to my other rhinos as they rush the enemy battle lines to get into hand to hand... 2 very different tactics for my army, but both work fairly well against their intended target.



edit: If you want a mobile army that leans towards hand to hand, marines can still be a good choice. A vulkan list, for example, is extremely competitive, and often makes use of a list that focuses on meltas, multimeltas, and flamers, with terminators for close support in a land raider.

Thanks alot man, real helpful. But the tac squads seem to lack a little in CC, having only one attack and no CCW...

they really are, which is why you need to augment them with other units like terminators.

say your facing 90 ork boyz comming at you... you have 30 tac marines in rhinos, packing flamers+missile launchers and power fists. this is one of the harder CC foes for marines to fight.

you deploy in front of the rhinos.

when he gets to 20-24" from you, you focus fire all on one squad... kill maybe 10 boyz from these shots. he moves 6" closer now... at 14" now. next turn he can charge... so you move your 3 rhinos up in front of 60 boyz, but leave it so one squad's movement(the one you shot up) isn't so badly blocked by them. your opponent now has choices to make, and more mistakes to make. he can do one of the following:

1) move around the rhinos. he won't be within 12" of you after movement though, most likely, and so won't get the charge even with a 6" waaaagh.
2) kill the rhinos with the 60 boyz. this isn't a guaranteed thing for him, because you did move 12", and it also ensures he's not moving closer to your marines.
3) while doing either of these, the unblocked squad can move in to attack you, and he can either waagh to assault, or leave them within rapid fire of your marines.

if he charges you with the orks he can, that combat will probably end in your marines loosing.... in which case you combat tactic out of the fight, then rapid fire them to hell with your other marines. at this point, the other orks are out of charge range, so you have at least a turn to rapid fire them, re-form your rhino wall, ect. you have options.

its basically all about limiting their charges by blocking their advance with rhinos.

Man tx alot Horst, I'm asking questions for a friend who doesn't have internet atm. He's trying to transition his army from a 4th edition gunline to ... not sure what! We haven't played many games in 5th yet, so our tactics are still in the learning stages (I play IG, we have an Ork buddy, and we play against other armies at our FLGS, therefore his desire for finding out some versatile tactics).

I prefer a ranged combat style for marines. I usually run about 75% shooty with vanilla marines, relying on the BS4 and massed weapons to tackle the more assault oriented armies. I especially prefer weapons with at least a 36" range so that I can deploy for extra standoff. A combination of mechanized vehicles and fast attack units (i.e. ABs and speeders) can help generate an extra turn or two of shooting against assault armies and help you close the distance quickly against more shooty armies (i.e. Tau, Guard) to take key elements out of the fight.

Tx PL,

I use a heavy biker list.
So I focus on shooting, and have CC as a last resort.

But it's highly dependent on the enemy.
If they are a sort of gunline with lots of squishies, or a 'slow' mech army, I rather get in their lines.

If they like getting close to me I try to kite til there's no room left...that sort of Water play.

You shouldnt focus on CC with standard marines since the only useful CC unit they have are terminators.. Best bet is to shoot and then assault whats left

Sad fact is SMs are one of the lower tier assault armies despite GW thinking marines are useful in hand to hand

Just avoid it unless you have to

How much longer will it be without a codex for every SM chapter in existence? Anyway, I would do a mixture, because I would probably end up playing Codex Marines.