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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Are SM Scouts as useful as they seem, what with infiltrate and free sniper rifles? Does anyone maximize the fact they are regulars that can have CCW's? Anyone field large numbers, like mostly scouts as the infantry?

Fun and Fluff for the Win! 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






the problem with scouts is that they cannot take a dedicated transport.. otherwise i'd take them far more often.

with sniper rifles, they aren't as useful as they seem. consider they only hit half the time, then only would half of that... you'd need over 40 sniper shots to bring down a carnifex (yes, thats counting rending)

they are useful at holding objectives, if you give them camo cloaks they don't die. but then they are as expensive as marines, and i'd rather take a 5 man marine squad in a razorback to hold my home objective.

they are useful at outflanking and killing enemies that way, but outflanking is not really reliable, and I don't like to fight battles based on what "might" happen, only what "will" happen. (ultramarines quote ftw).

a possible use i've been thinking of for them is actually with a chaplain, mounted in a land raider, as counter charge. they hit as hard as assault marines, but are cheaper and are troops. might make a decent unit.

i've got plans of using scout bikers in an upcoming list i'm making... they show promise. scout + turbo boost guarantees a first turn charge on any unit I choose... throw in a power fist, and if I go first, I basically pick any non-land raider unit and say remove it from the table.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Thanks again Horst, you've been real helpful. Good luck with the scout bikers move, that sounds like a vicious opening. Tell us how it goes!

Fun and Fluff for the Win! 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Boston, MA

For 90 points, a unit of 5 sniper counts with camo cloaks is a pretty durable scoring unit. Place them in cover by a home objective gives you a 3+ cover save and frees up your Tac Marines to move out in Rhinos and take other objectives. They also reliable cause a wound per turn (2.5 hits, 1.25 wounds) that gives you a chance to pin a unit. They have a place in a well balanced list, especially if you have some odd points at the end.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka



Chicago, Illinois

5 Scouts w/ powerfist and melta bomb sgt in a Landspeeder Storm has a 44 inch threat range with Scout move from Storm ; Disembark ; and assault.

Put a multimelta on it and go to town.

If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Tx for the ideas...

Fun and Fluff for the Win! 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





My issue with trying for great cover saves is that there are mobile hvy flamer platforms.
In addition to that GW is moving towards cover ignoring weapons.
So taking better cover saves is essentially a deterrant...which YMMV.

@Hollismason:
I'm meh about the LandSpeeder though, it's not exactly like a dedicated transports, eats up a VERY important Fast Attack slot all to itself.
Though they can assault afterwards (hopefully on an unmoved tank) they require a specific string of events to get to that point.

In addition, they are 2 soft kill points, and if not a kill point mission, are just 2 soft targets that are being thrown into the enemy.
Sure, YMMV.
Though... unless you run Vulkan I would NOT suggest the MM but the Hvy Flamer instead.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Boston, MA

For 90 points, its a bargain scoring unit that can add some ranged support and a pinning element to a Marine army--particularly if you end up with some odd points at the end. A 4+ Armor Save is still pretty decent and provides a save against almost everything that ignores cover (heavy flamer, Redeemer flamer, and Avenger are the only three I can think of off the top of my head that are AP4 or better). There are very few units in the Marine list that are as durable to long range fire and score for so few points while still providing useful firepower.
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





'Some' as in 'underwhelming'. And pinning? Sorry I don't care for that as it's never been an issue for me.

There are many fast moving flamer options, and removing a scoring unit off an objective is the goal of the enemy anyway, so it's not 'helping' in that sense.

/shrug, whatever floats your boat.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Boston, MA

Please name the fast moving heavy flamer platforms that are at least AP4 as well. Not many exist outside of the Marine codex. And if the enemy does move up and flame off the scouts, you have not lost much. Its a 90 point unit. The pinning is a complete bonus. You don't rely on it but it is fun when your opponent fails his LD9 test and ends up locked in place for a turn.

And if the opponent is that deep in your backfield to take off the Scouts with a flamer, you probably have much bigger problems in the game at the moment.
   
Made in us
Plastictrees






Salem, MA

PanzerLeader wrote:Please name the fast moving heavy flamer platforms that are at least AP4 as well.


Destructor bike warlocks
Destructor warlocks in a wave serpent
Fire dragon exarch with heavy flamer
LR eradicator
Hellhound/banewolf
Any IG vehicle with a hull-mounted heavy flamer
Mounted sisters with heavy flamers
Sisters immolators
Any DH unit with an incinerator

That's off the top of my head--I think there are others--all not in the SM codex.

"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





^
What he said, plus a few more. Then there's SM to consider as you noted PanzerLeader.

Some Extras:
Chaos Terminators with Hvy Flamer.
Wind of Chaos on rhino Thousand Sons, rhino or winged HQ Sorc, winged/deepstriking Daemon Prince.
Breath of Chaos on deepstriking Flamers, Tzeentch Daemon Princes, Nurgle Herald, Great Unclean One, Lords of Change, Herald of Tzeentch, maybe Keeper of Secrets.
Huron Black heart on a rhino or hoping out of a LR.
Noise Marine Doom Siren out a rhino or hoping out of a LR.
Heamonculus Flamer Weapon with D6AP (jetbike or raider).

And prob. some more before we get into ‘Space Marine’ armies.


This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in us
Angry Chaos Agitator






Dallas, TX

Horst wrote:
with sniper rifles, they aren't as useful as they seem. consider they only hit half the time, then only would half of that... you'd need over 40 sniper shots to bring down a carnifex (yes, thats counting rending)


Where's the math on that one? I count 22 shots gives 4.075 wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which, granted is still too many, but almost twice as good as your claim would indicate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/23 22:20:27


 
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch






VA Beach

Scouts, meh...

Plague Marine: YYYEYEEEAAAAAHAHHHH BBBBBBOOOOOYYYEEEEEEE!!!


Let the galaxy burn.

 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





Yes, plague marines are awesome, but lets not rub it in.
__________
So...
Lets say 10 snipers (no vet for simplicity).
10 Snipers = 5 hits. Lets say 1 rends.
4 hits = 2 wounds.

So... is the fex in cover? Does it have normal saves or armor saves?

Anyway, lets assume a dakka fex...
those 2 wounds translates to 2/3 wounds.

So... 20 snipers will get around 2 rends and 4/3 wounds pass armor.
This is assuming 2 Rends, No Cover, No extended Carapace.

/shrug. With respect to their offense:
It's not terrible, but it's not great either.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





London (work) / Pompey (live, from time to time)

Ill agree on the sniper points.
They arent amazing, but they do have a use now and then.

For example: Character hunting.
People tend to forget to put characters with units, leaving you a nice target to shoot at.
Also, it makes a nice Mr Sly hunting unit when he comes in

due to playing BA, my scouts have less options, they cost more, and are elites lol.
But, they have the stats of a marine with a 4+ instead.
They also have access to a pod.
Meaning that i can drop cheap 10 man units onto the field with bolt + CCW for quick combat winning.

Suffused with the dying memories of Sanguinus, the warriors of the Death Company seek only one thing: death in battle fighting against the enemies of the Emperor.  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka



Chicago, Illinois

I like CC combat scouts its 155 for 10 with a powerfist. Thats a good deal.

The whol landspeeder storm thing. Yeah okay you lose not being opentopped and the ability to take a heavy flamer. however you do gain that scout move which is pretty nice.

If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





Not trying to sound rude but JD21290: basing the usefulness of a squad due to a really stupid/noobish/idiotic move by the opponent IMO makes the scouts look bad frankly.

As to storms..../shrug, I don't feel like repeating myself.
It's been done to death. Good when it works, flat on its face when it doesn't.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka



Chicago, Illinois

Yeah pretty much that ; I like using them alot but man when it fails its a epic fail. I have used 2 at a time though that is pretty nifty 280 points to make my opponent really question whether he wants to get near the board edge is kind of keen.


Honestly that is how I use them now; one is kind of meh two is like butta tho.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh about the whole 2 thing ; it stacks sure you may be fearless but your going to have 10 guys with 2 powerfists charging your unit that is probably going to lose CC. It just takes up two slots but I use space marine bikes anyway and just go with a mix of drop when i do that.

2 Squads in Speeders with 2 Sternguard in drop with a dread in a drop is right at 1000 points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/24 00:35:49


If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. 
   
 
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