Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I wanted to make a Biel Tan Aspect-heavy force in transports. Here it is:

HQ
Farseer w/ R. of Warding, Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune

Farseer w/ Spirit Stones, Singing Spear, Doom, Fortune

Elites
10 Howling Banshees w/ Exarch w/ executioner, in WS w/ Scatter Laser, Spirit Stones

10 Fire Dragons, in WS w/ Scatter Laser, Spirit Stones

Troops
10 Dire Avengers w/ Exarch w/ PW/Shimmer Shield, Defend, Blade Storm, in WS w/ Bright Lance, Spirit Stones

10 Dire Avengers w/ Exarch w/ PW/Shimmer Shield, Defend, Blade Storm, in WS w/ EML, Spirit Stones



The Farseers would each ride with a DA squad. A problem I can see is that since I have so many points in transports, the army has a low number of models, and a low number of scoring units. I almost always play MEQ's, so I shouldn't be too outnumbered. I decided on the unusual DA Exarchs so my DA's would be more flexible.

Some things I'm considering changing:
Taking off one Farseer. I might not need to Doom two things a turn.
Taing less Fire Dragons and Banshees, to fit some Scorpians in.
Working in another squad of DA's.
Getting vectored engines.

Don't need 10 Fire Dragons. 5 or 6 is enough.

Farseer should lose spear, add Runes /Witnessing to both

Try to tone down gear on DA exarch's

Leave Scorpions out.

Try Star Engines on WS's

Try Fire Prisms

There is no reason for star engines. A WS is fast enough as it is

I am agreeing with Old Man, except make the two farseers Uthran, he is fantastic in game.
Oh and cheaper than your farseers.
And maybe try some Warp Spiders? They arent that great, but they are friendly and quite fun to play.

The fire dragons should be smaller, only if you want them to be a suicide unit to take out LR's or Monliths (or basically any big bad tanks the enemy might have) but I have seen some sucess with 8+ fire dragon squads, mostly for MC or MEQ hunting, they are very points effective against termies

The DA seem to not know what they want to do, you should (for the most part) pick a job, and have that unit stick to it. I find success with Dual ShuriCatapults and bladestorm, shoot, redeploy, shoot, redeploy, repeat, repeat, but hey, thats just me.

Scorpions are good, I actually have alot of success with them, though against MEQ's they have a better place left on the shelf.

Star engines on WS's are redundant, 24" is far enough for one turn.

Fire prisms are ok, but have there place in other lists, a fire prism just wouldn't be right in this list...

Well, I was planning on using my Fire Dragons to destroy MEQ's and termies, so should I keep the high number, or maybe think about more than 1 squad of them?

I'm not going to put Star Engines, I agree that 24" should get me everywhere I need to be.

Ultran isn't Biel Tan, IIRC, so I wouldnt use him.

On another site I visit, there was an argument for DA's with defend and PW. I like hte idea of the flexablity of DA's that aren't too bad in assault, since you can't always stop things from assaulting you.

Just re name him and use his profile. I am a biel tann player myself, and i do this.
I reckon another squad rather than 10, bu that is way more expensive since you need anoter serpent.

Just remember, if your fire dragons are going to destroy a LR or any other transport for that fact, have a supporting squad to clean up what's inside or those fire dragons will be wasted.

As for the dire avengers, ehh take them how you want them, I just try to use finesse to keep them out of harms way, though it doesn't work all the time...

Revised List: Cheaper Avengers and HQ let me fit another squad of Banshees in

HQ
Eldrad - 210

Elite

6 Fire Dragons, in Wave Sperpent w/ Scatter Laser and Spirit Stones - 221

7 Howling Banshees w/ Exarch w/ Executioner, in Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser and Spirit Stones - 259

7 Howling Banshees w/ Exarch w/ Executioner, in Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser and Spirit Stones - 259

Troops

10 Dire Avengers w/ Exarch w/ Dual Cats and Blade Storm, in Wave Serpent w/ EML and Spirit Stones - 282

9 Dire Avengers w/ Exarch w/ Dual Cats and Blade Storm, in Wave Serpent w/ EML and Spirit Stones - 270

Total: 1501

I'm think of replacing the second Banshee squad with Shining Spears.

The list looks good for a Biel-Tan list, I wouldn't suggest Eldrad for two reasons: He soaks up way too many points for what he does, you can get a farseer for alot cheaper and not lose too much impact. Also, he just isn't very Biel-Tan-y, I understand many people just re-name special characters to justify this, but, not only would an autarch be more fluffy, it would give you +1 to all reserve rolls.

If your going for fluff friendly then Eldrad is a big no no. Not only is he fro ma different craftworld... but the dude is death (not to mention overused like a mofo). An Autarch would be MUCH more fluff friendly for BT.

Banshee units should really be full 10 mans if you going to take them. CC units need ever last attack they can get to ensure victory.

Other then that no real complaints

Ref Star engines here....

I have seen nothing in the books to stop them being used to tank shock, just people winging about 'normal movement' nonsense. but if you do, say, a 24" tank shock along a guard gun line, and catch a few units, maybe cause a couple to run away, you can then move 12" back to nearly where you've just been and force them to carry on running... very nice tactic. even better if your guns have been blown off, as it's not really expected.

I have them on all my tanks as std. being able to cover half the board in 1 move is very handy.

just my 2 pence worth

Kaepora wrote:I'm think of replacing the second Banshee squad with Shining Spears.

No!!!!!!

The list is good. I would replace one banshee unit with some warp spiders as they are fun to play and do not really need a transport. This may give you enough points to alos get a wraithlord or some war walkers, both of them are good editions.

spite wrote:Ref Star engines here....

I have seen nothing in the books to stop them being used to tank shock, just people winging about 'normal movement' nonsense. but if you do, say, a 24" tank shock along a guard gun line, and catch a few units, maybe cause a couple to run away, you can then move 12" back to nearly where you've just been and force them to carry on running... very nice tactic. even better if your guns have been blown off, as it's not really expected.

I have them on all my tanks as std. being able to cover half the board in 1 move is very handy.

just my 2 pence worth

While star engine tank shock may not be specifically denied in the rulebook, it's not accepted as legal by many gaming groups. I don't want to turn this army list into another flame war, but I'd definitely run the idea past your friendly opponent before springing it on him. I like using the star engines to grab last round objectives or contest them, so they're not a complete loss, but I don't use them universally.

I love BT lists for the opportunity to use units that may not be top-shelf but are still loads of fun to run. Try an Autarch with Fusion Gun, Warp Pack, Power Weapon and Mandiblasters paired to a unit of 10 Warp Spiders, Exarch with twin Deathspinners, Powerblades, and Withdraw for highly mobile anti-tank unit. Remember that any Jump Infantry can deep strike if held in reserve and after hitting side or rear armor, the unit can jump behind cover if they roll good enough. Baharroth with a unit of Swooping Hawks, Exarch with Sunrifle but no powers is a lot of fun to try your hand at yo-yo hawks, if a bit expensive it's good for a laugh.

If you're running against MEQ armies, try running a few 5x Dark Reapers w/ Exarch w/ Fast Shot & Crack Shot & Tempest Launcher. S5 AP3 Heavy 2 shots make those marines hug cover - switch to Crack shot to keep the hits coming. The tempest launcher is almost too good not to take, but a EML is pretty nice too, especially when you want to ensure that one of them will go down with an instakill. These guys are great to eliminate devestator squads. You can get their Serpents for extra tank shocky goodness, just deploy them on the table so they can take advantage of their shootiness round one.

I love Eldrad, but if you're trying to stay faithful to the theme of BT, run seer/autarch or seer/Avatar - much more fluffy and gives you a good reason to have that Court of the Young King for Apoc games!

spite wrote:Ref Star engines here....

I have seen nothing in the books to stop them being used to tank shock, just people winging about 'normal movement' nonsense. but if you do, say, a 24" tank shock along a guard gun line, and catch a few units, maybe cause a couple to run away, you can then move 12" back to nearly where you've just been and force them to carry on running... very nice tactic. even better if your guns have been blown off, as it's not really expected.

I have them on all my tanks as std. being able to cover half the board in 1 move is very handy.

just my 2 pence worth

Look at Tank Shock rules in BRB and Eldar Codex abit better.

Tank Shock is done in movement phase. Star Engines are engaged in Shooting phase.

Case closed.

Khaine wrote:I am agreeing with Old Man, except make the two farseers Uthran, he is fantastic in game.
Oh and cheaper than your farseers.

He's a unique character, so you can't have TWO of him in a list!

...Ain't no cloning in Ulthwe!

Taking Eldrad for any other craftworld and trying to claim "Fluffiness" is a complete load of BS. #1 The guy is dead and #2 there is nothing like him in any other craftworld for a reason. Eldrad is the strongest psyker Eldar have from the fluff point of view and is equipped with his unique staff which is where the majority of his uber playability comes from. If there was a similar psyker from any other craftworld I'm sure they would have been heard about.

Biel-Tan = Aspect warriors out the wazoo with exarchs + Avatar

If you want to make a true BT fluff army keep that centric and you'll be golden.

BlueDagger wrote:Taking Eldrad for any other craftworld and trying to claim "Fluffiness" is a complete load of BS. #1 The guy is dead and #2 there is nothing like him in any other craftworld for a reason. Eldrad is the strongest psyker Eldar have from the fluff point of view and is equipped with his unique staff which is where the majority of his uber playability comes from. If there was a similar psyker from any other craftworld I'm sure they would have been heard about.

Craftworld Fenris has Farseer Njal Stormcaller, currently one of the most powerful eldar psykers and possibly more powerful than good ole Eldrad.

Commissar Molotov wrote:

Khaine wrote:I am agreeing with Old Man, except make the two farseers Uthran, he is fantastic in game.
Oh and cheaper than your farseers.

He's a unique character, so you can't have TWO of him in a list!

...Ain't no cloning in Ulthwe!

PLLL.... He meant to take out the two farseers, and add in Eldrad...

I agree to not take eldrad, he is just so... not biel-tan