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looking around on dakka and lexicanum i am amazed how many people honestly believe
that horus started the horus heresy (i know how stupid that sounds)
surely its obvious that lorgar was the architect?
any thoughts?

If your going to be technical about it Kor phaeron and Erebus started the heresy. They were the ones who showed Lorgar the power of Chaos after the Emperor shamed him. Erebus and Kor had followed chaos from when they were youths on Colchis. Horus started the actual heresy, he made the choice to fight against the Emperor. The heresy couldnt have happened if horus had not accepted the lies he was fed.

Though if you want to get really technical, you could say that the chaos gods started it

lol, but seriously i see what you meen when you say erebus and kor phaeron

statu wrote:Though if you want to get really technical, you could say that the chaos gods started it

LOL. yeah ok. Though the Eldar created slaanesh so we can blame them for lucius.

I blame GW. They made the fluff. Those jerks. They killed the Emprah!

Well...Horus did start the heresy. He was not the one who first turned to Chaos, but he was the first to put his worship out in the open, as well as being the one who actually declared war on the Imperium.

Erebus was a devious who was prepared to hand the universe to Chaos on a silver platter if he could get back at the Emperor for being mean to Lorgar. And that is just insane. A few of the Legions (Iron Warriors, for one) were actually wronged by the Powers That Be, but the Bearers? No. And Horus, for all his awesomeness, was a powerhungry weakminded fool.

i kind of feel sorry for horus

belial wrote:If your going to be technical about it Kor phaeron and Erebus started the heresy. They were the ones who showed Lorgar the power of Chaos after the Emperor shamed him. Erebus and Kor had followed chaos from when they were youths on Colchis. Horus started the actual heresy, he made the choice to fight against the Emperor. The heresy couldnt have happened if horus had not accepted the lies he was fed.

I think you mean that the Heresy would not have happened if Horus had not been exposed to the truth.

The Horus Heresy happened because GW didn't have the budget to make more than one Titan mold for Adeptus Titanicus!

Terrible reason for billions of people to die.

That is the truth.

GW saw the success of Battletech and thought they needed a giant robot game, so they made Adeptus Teenytechnicus.

They invented the Horus Heresy so they could have identical robots on both sides. The only difference in the models was one lot were red and the other lot were blue.

willydstyle wrote:I think you mean that the Heresy would not have happened if Horus had not been exposed to the truth.

What? The truth? Are you kidding?
Chaos lies. Everyone knows this. The stuff with the Emperor letting the Warp suck his Primarchs away might have happened, but I'm thinking it didn't. And the first scene Horus is shown? With all the worshipers? And the statues of the Emperor and his Primarchs? Some of them, anyway? And Erebus told Horus this was how things would be if Horus didn't rebel? That was one huge lie. Extra ironic too, because that was the future that happened when Horus rebelled.

Grotzooka wrote:Erebus was a devious who was prepared to hand the universe to Chaos on a silver platter if he could get back at the Emperor for being mean to Lorgar. And that is just insane. A few of the Legions (Iron Warriors, for one) were actually wronged by the Powers That Be, but the Bearers? No. And Horus, for all his awesomeness, was a powerhungry weakminded fool.

I completely agree with you.

G

Hurt the feelings of an supremely arrogant and godlike warlord.

Expect nothing bad to happen.

Priceless.

statues of the Emperor and his Primarchs? Some of them, anyway?

The chaos gods showed him the future, only the good primarchs are there because the others turned to chas. It was a planet in 40k, but the chaos gods told him that he was going to be forgotten, that the emperor was going to leave him. But his statue wasn't up there because the Horus Heresy happened.

cadian512 wrote:i kind of feel sorry for horus

Feel sorry for Horus? Why cause he failed? Horus is still in my book, the number one badass in 40k. Not only did he smash down the "invincible" fortresses, and break through the gates on Terra, but killed Sanguiniess (sp? its not working for me today lol) And damn near killed the Emperor in the process.
Id rather feel pride for Horus then feeling sad for the bloke

Lord-Loss wrote:The chaos gods showed him the future, only the good primarchs are there because the others turned to chas. It was a planet in 40k, but the chaos gods told him that he was going to be forgotten, that the emperor was going to leave him. But his statue wasn't up there because the Horus Heresy happened.

Exactly.

Wasn't horus injured which made him more open to the lies of chaos?

Yep. Almost killed, as a matter of fact.

My apologies for the liberties taken in editing comments, but...

Darth Vader: Did they tell you why they wrote the Horus Heresy?

Luke: ...

Darth Vader:

Kid_Kyoto as Darth Vader wrote:The Horus Heresy happened because GW didn't have the budget to make more than one Titan mold for Adeptus Titanicus!

Luke: I know what happened to the Horus Heresy. They created the Horus Heresy to sell Chaos models and the Realm of Chaos hard cover books.

Darth Vader:

Kilkrazy as Darth Vader wrote:
GW saw the success of Battletech and thought they needed a giant robot game, so they made Adeptus Teenytechnicus.

They invented the Horus Heresy so they could have identical robots on both sides. The only difference in the models was one lot were red and the other lot were blue.

Luke: Nooooooooooo! That's not true! That's not possible!

solkan wrote:My apologies for the liberties taken in editing comments, but...

Darth Vader: Did they tell you why they wrote the Horus Heresy?

Luke: ...

Darth Vader:

Kid_Kyoto as Darth Vader wrote:The Horus Heresy happened because GW didn't have the budget to make more than one Titan mold for Adeptus Titanicus!

Luke: I know what happened to the Horus Heresy. They created the Horus Heresy to sell Chaos models and the Realm of Chaos hard cover books.

Darth Vader:

Kilkrazy as Darth Vader wrote:
GW saw the success of Battletech and thought they needed a giant robot game, so they made Adeptus Teenytechnicus.

They invented the Horus Heresy so they could have identical robots on both sides. The only difference in the models was one lot were red and the other lot were blue.

Luke: Nooooooooooo! That's not true! That's not possible!

Everything you know is a lie.

They've purged entire star systems to keep this secret.

Seeing that nobody has fully expressed the opinion I am about to, I hope readers will forgive this addition to a 3-month old discussion.

(clears throat) I believe that proximate cause of the origins of the Heresy lie with the forces of Chaos.

When the Ruinous Powers scattered the Primarchs throughout the galaxy shortly after their creation this was the initial move in their ages-old plan for the destruction of the Emperor and mankind. Disconnected from the guiding hand of the Emperor, who knows what influences and temptations each Primarch was exposed to in their early years?

If we are going to be pedantic we can say Kor Phaeron, Erebus, Lorgar and other Word Bearers did not begin the heresy, but certainly facilitated it by aiding the corruption of Horus.

The original architects were the Dark Powers who used the Word Bearers and then Horus as their chosen implements to enact their dark plan. As Warmaster, Horus was essential because he was answerable only to the Emperor, had access to almost the entire Imperial army, navy and ancillaries, and thus was instrumental in recruiting his brother Primarchs for the following Heresy which Horus was the figurehead for.

Chaos merely waited for the right opportunity to bring all it's pieces into play.

So, basing my conclusion on the above (brief) reasoning, my contention is that Chaos ultimately lie at the origins of the Heresy.

LoyalViggo wrote:Seeing that nobody has fully expressed the opinion I am about to, I hope readers will forgive this addition to a 3-month old discussion.

(clears throat) I believe that proximate cause of the origins of the Heresy lie with the forces of Chaos.

When the Ruinous Powers scattered the Primarchs throughout the galaxy shortly after their creation this was the initial move in their ages-old plan for the destruction of the Emperor and mankind. Disconnected from the guiding hand of the Emperor, who knows what influences and temptations each Primarch was exposed to in their early years?

If we are going to be pedantic we can say Kor Phaeron, Erebus, Lorgar and other Word Bearers did not begin the heresy, but certainly facilitated it by aiding the corruption of Horus.

The original architects were the Dark Powers who used the Word Bearers and then Horus as their chosen implements to enact their dark plan. As Warmaster, Horus was essential because he was answerable only to the Emperor, had access to almost the entire Imperial army, navy and ancillaries, and thus was instrumental in recruiting his brother Primarchs for the following Heresy which Horus was the figurehead for.

Chaos merely waited for the right opportunity to bring all it's pieces into play.

So, basing my conclusion on the above (brief) reasoning, my contention is that Chaos ultimately lie at the origins of the Heresy.

I agree, in one of the books a demon promises that old night will return, meaning they had a plan for this the whole time.

Michael Morcock is to blame.

LoyalViggo wrote:Seeing that nobody has fully expressed the opinion I am about to, I hope readers will forgive this addition to a 1-year old discussion.

Corrected

cadian512 wrote:i am amazed how many people honestly believe
that horus started the horus heresy (i know how stupid that sounds)

any thoughts?

Actually, to the layman or casual 40ker (is that an oxymoron?), thinking that Horus starting the Horus Heresy doesn't sound stupid at all. It seems pretty logical, in fact.

I'm new to the game. I came to it through the Horus Heresy FFG boardgame. I figured that Horus started the Heresy, what with it being called "The Horus Heresy" and all. And in this case I'm not sure what "started" means. He turned to Chaos and attacked the Emperor, and the galaxy burned, right? Seems like he started it.