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Can you take them as a mandatory HQ choice (a la The Emporers Champion in BT armies) or does the HQ slot need to be filled by something that takes up that slot?

Are you asking if an HQ slot needs to be taken by an HQ slot?

Since the rules in the codex state that a summoned greater daemon does not take up an HQ slot on the FoC i would say you still have to have an Actual HQ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Look on page 102 to the very right at the top of the page.

Vindicator#9 wrote:Since the rules in the codex state that a summoned greater daemon does not take up an HQ slot on the FoC i would say you still have to have an Actual HQ.

The Emperor's Champion works the same way, but GW ruled that he was sufficient to satsify the mandatory 1 HQ.

Using a slot isn't required. You just have to have a HQ unit. Or somesuch thing. I can't say I agree with it, but that's the way they chose to go.


However, in the case of the Greater Daemons, page 89 says that they don't count towards your maximums and minimums, so the Emperor's Champion ruling wouldn't apply.

So it is treated as a HQ but doesnt count like the emperors champ.

It's a HQ unit, but doesn't use up a slot, and doesn't count towards the maximum or minimum number of HQ units your army includes.

Right just clearing it up.

insaniak wrote:It's a HQ unit, but doesn't use up a slot, and doesn't count towards the maximum or minimum number of HQ units your army includes.

That rule you are citing has some weight in that it says they "exist outside of the force organisation chart" rather than just not counting towards the limits, but it refers you to the rules in the army list where the Greater Daemon is said to "not use up any force organisation chart selection, but is otherwhise treated as a HQ unit."

I agree you can't just refer to the Emperor's Champion for this case, but I don't think it's exactly clear cut that the Greater Daemon cannot be the compulsory HQ choice.

If it doesn't count towards your minimum number of HQ choices, it can't count as your compulsory choice.

To determine whether or not your army is legal, you count the number of HQ choices you have selected.

Does your army include a minimum of 1 HQ choice?

Well, it has a Greater Daemon... but that doesn't count towards your FOC minimums.

So, as far as the minimum number count of HQ choices is concerned, you have 0 HQ choices selected. Your army is therefore not legal.

insaniak wrote:If it doesn't count towards your minimum number of HQ choices, it can't count as your compulsory choice.

To determine whether or not your army is legal, you count the number of HQ choices you have selected.

Does your army include a minimum of 1 HQ choice?

Well, it has a Greater Daemon... but that doesn't count towards your FOC minimums.

So, as far as the minimum number count of HQ choices is concerned, you have 0 HQ choices selected. Your army is therefore not legal.

But it doesn't say "does not count towards your minimum number of HQ choices" it says "chosen in addition to your normal minimums and maximums, as outlined in the section at the back of the army list."

And the section in question says "This model does not use up any force organisation chart selection, but is otherwise treated as a HQ unit."

As it stands, I lean in the direction of what you are saying, for a few reasons, but I simply wanted to point out that it isn't exactly decisively clear in this instance IMO.

Drunkspleen wrote:But it doesn't say "does not count towards your minimum number of HQ choices" it says "chosen in addition to your normal minimums and maximums, as outlined in the section at the back of the army list."

...which amounts to the same thing. If it's in addition to your normal minimum, it can't be your normal minimum.

Thats a bunch of bull I cant take a lesser demon/deamon as a min troop choice? That is just some . If Space marines have scouts whats the point of lesser demons? That would have been real cool if the player could do that so that way chaos marines could have a horde army as well??? And on top of that the player cant even use the demons as allies from the other codex!

...Overreaction, much? It seems pretty clear to me: "...does not use up any force organisation chart selection" (C:CSM, p102) means that you cannot use them to fill your compulsory choices.

To Beastajg:

It's called codex Chaos SPACE MARINES. The emphasis in the current codex was put on the Marines, and taken away from the Daemons. So it shouldn't be surprising when you can't field your troops with just Daemons.

I believe that was the same title in the old codex too? so they should have the same things?

That was before Codex: Daemons was released, now they have to push two codexes with the Chaos line.

Summoned Greater or Lesser do not count for your compulsory choices.

InqFabius is right. And let's not start complaining about C:CSM here. And the rules are the rules-when they're clear, whining that "you don't like 'em" is irrelevant. You have to take the bad with the good.