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This came up at my local GW the other day. I had a dreadnought assault a landraider and do nothing (1,1,2, ftl). Next turn, he doesn't move his landraider, and shoots the dreadnought, and all he is able to do is immobilize it.

On my next turn, am I able to continue the assault? Technically, vehicles can't be locked in combat, but noone moved, so I was still in b2b.

And if I can assault, as I am still in b2b, do I count as having charged?

No, as you failed to demolish the vehicle the assault ended.

I think he means in subsequent rounds Fabius.

Walkers still fight in assaults when immobilised, they have one less attack, though. I would make the call that yes, he can assault things that are in base to base combat with him.

Maybe next time your opponent won't park next to an angry fire hydrant.

Pg. 63 of the rulebook - "Successive Turns"

Since the Dread is still in b2b and the vehicle (landraider) didn't move. Yes, the Dread may still try to smash the LR.

In theory though, the dread is not in combat anymore.
since it cannot be locked into combat against a vehicle.

he is not locked no, which means the land raider is free to move away.

if it doesn't, well then, the guy playing it is an idiot, and the dread deserves to blow it up.

andruin wrote:On my next turn, am I able to continue the assault? Technically, vehicles can't be locked in combat, but noone moved, so I was still in b2b.

And if I can assault, as I am still in b2b, do I count as having charged?

No, you can't assault. However, from the rulebook under vehicles and assaults:

Successive turns
If a vehicle that has been assaulted, and has survived, does not move in its successive movement phase, enemy models will still be in base contact with it during its shooting and assault phase.

.. further down..

Units that still have models in base contact with a vehicle in its assault phase may attack it again, just as in a normal ongoing combat


So basically, no you can't assault it in your turn, HOWEVER, in his turn you can attack it (without the charge bonus) and you can continue to do so in your turn as well. As long as he doesn't move his vehicle and you don't move your unit, they'll be in base to base and be able to attack it in both players' assault phases. Free attacks plus you hit automatically since he hasn't moved.

As long as your in BC, yes. Otherwise, no.

Yeah, you're not locked (because you can't lock vehicles without a WS) but you can keep fighting if he doesn't drive away.

So, recap- Immobilize his land raider on the assault with your dread, get immobilized by his lascannons and keep bashing away, if you still fail to wreck it, keep bashing on your turn. (dont forget you can still shoot, as you are not actually locked in combat!)

JD21290 wrote:In theory though, the dread is not in combat anymore.
since it cannot be locked into combat against a vehicle.

Of course theory doesn't really matter since the rules state if it's still in contact with the vehicle in the enemy assault phase it's free to continue to attack.

Book: I actually missed the last part of the OP.
Didnt realise that the raider didnt move away.

Demogerg wrote:So, recap- Immobilize his land raider on the assault with your dread, get immobilized by his lascannons and keep bashing away, if you still fail to wreck it, keep bashing on your turn. (dont forget you can still shoot, as you are not actually locked in combat!)

And, since you're not worried about making any assault moves, you can actually shoot a different target than the vehicle you're in B2B with.

Once I assaulted a chimera with my wraithlord and immobilized it. In my opponent's assault phase I failed to do any significant damage. In my movement phase, I stayed in base contact, but rotated to see a different unit. I fired at that unit, and since I was still in base contact with the chimera, attacked it again in my CC phase.

I had a very similar situation. I charged a Land Raider with my dreadnought and immobilized the Land Raider. He then shot my dreadnought and immobilized it as well. I know that my dreadnought gets to keeps getting automatic hit each assault phase for being b2b with an immobilized tank.

The unaswered question is whether the dreadnought would receive the +1 attack for charging in my assault phase?

willydstyle wrote:And, since you're not worried about making any assault moves, you can actually shoot a different target than the vehicle you're in B2B with.

Excellent. I never gave it that much thought -- silly me.

denny1824 wrote:The unaswered question is whether the dreadnought would receive the +1 attack for charging in my assault phase?

No, it is not charging as it cannot make a(n assault) move if immobilized. Let alone any move on your opponent's turn.

I agree on the assault comment by kirsanth. Why would you even think something that isn't making an assault move would get the assault move bonus?

Just because they're not locked in combat does not mean they are not already in combat.

willydstyle wrote:
Once I assaulted a chimera with my wraithlord and immobilized it. In my opponent's assault phase I failed to do any significant damage. In my movement phase, I stayed in base contact, but rotated to see a different unit. I fired at that unit, and since I was still in base contact with the chimera, attacked it again in my CC phase.

I can't decide if that is cheesy, or Brilliant!

kirsanth wrote:
No, it is not charging as it cannot make a(n assault) move if immobilized. Let alone any move on your opponent's turn.

Thor665 wrote:I agree on the assault comment by kirsanth. Why would you even think something that isn't making an assault move would get the assault move bonus?

Just because they're not locked in combat does not mean they are not already in combat.

P37:
'+1 Assault Bonus: Engaged models who assaulted this turn get +1 attack.'
Is the movement required? I'm not seeing that, so a reference would be nice.
The walker meets all the requirements for assaulting under 'declare assaults' (and thus, having 'assaulted this turn') as far as I can tell.

Or are we talking about the tank owning opponents turn?

(Being Engaged in)Close combat is fighting -- Assaulting is the act of moving into base (or such a combat).

Pages 33-35.

Your reference can be found on page 63 of the big rulebook (vehicles and assaults).

Under the heading 'Successive Turns'

The third paragraph clearly dictates that after the initial assault if you stay in base contact you treat additional Assault phases as a chance to attack again "just as in a normal ongoing combat"

Therefore it does not count as the turn you assaulted and you do not get the additional attack.

^----- This too.

Thor665 wrote:Your reference can be found on page 63 of the big rulebook (vehicles and assaults).

Under the heading 'Successive Turns'

The third paragraph clearly dictates that after the initial assault if you stay in base contact you treat additional Assault phases as a chance to attack again "just as in a normal ongoing combat"

Therefore it does not count as the turn you assaulted and you do not get the additional attack.

Thanks.

a few quick things i'd like to add/ask, no one seemed to mention that as long as the LR didnt move, you can hit it on both players turns... and i'm not sure you could cont. to attack a vehicle in CC and fire at a differant squad... you still have the "just as in a normal ongoing combat".... any thoughts??

Thanks,
Loredragon2

Loredragon2 wrote:a few quick things i'd like to add/ask, no one seemed to mention that as long as the LR didnt move, you can hit it on both players turns... and i'm not sure you could cont. to attack a vehicle in CC and fire at a differant squad... you still have the "just as in a normal ongoing combat".... any thoughts??

Thanks,
Loredragon2

The "just as in a normal ongoing combat" is what allows you to attack on both players assault phases as long as the target vehicle did not move.

However, since you're not locked in combat, you're free to take other actions allowed normally. It is simply the attacks themselves that take place "as in a normal ongoing combat."

I dont have my BRB with me so i'm guessing that the rule only reads you man only Assalt a unit that you shot at this turn... and you contend that the hits as long as you stay in BTB are not assalt? there just CC attacks "just as in a normal ongoing combat"?

I was curious about this edge case, too, and upon consultation with the rulebook: Models which are locked in close combat cannot shoot in the shooting phase.

So if you get into base contact with the enemy vehicle and it doesn't move away, then you can apparently do all sorts of fun things like have a normal unit fire a heavy weapon either at point blank range at the vehicle or some other target (assuming the normal unit didn't have to move) and then swing at the vehicle in the assault phase.

It really does make the 'crew stunned' result into a better consolation prize on the damage result table if you have a ranged weapon bearing monstrous creature attacking vehicles. You get to choose between the 1" shuffle to move back and recharge the vehicle, or stand still to shoot somebody else and then swing at the vehicle in the assault phase.

solkan wrote:I was curious about this edge case, too, and upon consultation with the rulebook: Models which are locked in close combat cannot shoot in the shooting phase.

So if you get into base contact with the enemy vehicle and it doesn't move away, then you can apparently do all sorts of fun things like have a normal unit fire a heavy weapon either at point blank range at the vehicle or some other target (assuming the normal unit didn't have to move) and then swing at the vehicle in the assault phase.

It really does make the 'crew stunned' result into a better consolation prize on the damage result table if you have a ranged weapon bearing monstrous creature attacking vehicles. You get to choose between the 1" shuffle to move back and recharge the vehicle, or stand still to shoot somebody else and then swing at the vehicle in the assault phase.

Precisely.

Assaulting is making the actual assault move.

Making the attacks is based on whether or not you've been in B2B the entire turn, and is not actually considered to be locked in combat or assaulting, but an event that triggers if the previous condition (B2B all turn) has been fulfilled.

Once I assaulted a chimera with my wraithlord and immobilized it. In my opponent's assault phase I failed to do any significant damage. In my movement phase, I stayed in base contact, but rotated to see a different unit. I fired at that unit, and since I was still in base contact with the chimera, attacked it again in my CC phase.

So a unit could walk into B2B contact with a vehicle, shoot something else, and then attack the vehicle?

Makes that Dakka fex a little bit better..

Accipiter wrote:

Once I assaulted a chimera with my wraithlord and immobilized it. In my opponent's assault phase I failed to do any significant damage. In my movement phase, I stayed in base contact, but rotated to see a different unit. I fired at that unit, and since I was still in base contact with the chimera, attacked it again in my CC phase.

So a unit could walk into B2B contact with a vehicle, shoot something else, and then attack the vehicle?

Makes that Dakka fex a little bit better..

Not exactly. It requires a specific sequence of events to really happen.

You still have to assault the vehicle the first turn, otherwise you can't come within 1" of an enemy unit, of course.

Then the vehicle has to not die, but be stunned or immobilized again.

Then your opponent has to fail to kill your MC during his shooting phase.

Then your MC has to fail to kill the stunned/immobilized vehicle on his CC phase.

Then you can shoot a different unit, and continue to attack the vehicle when your CC phase comes around.

Accipiter wrote:

Once I assaulted a chimera with my wraithlord and immobilized it. In my opponent's assault phase I failed to do any significant damage. In my movement phase, I stayed in base contact, but rotated to see a different unit. I fired at that unit, and since I was still in base contact with the chimera, attacked it again in my CC phase.

So a unit could walk into B2B contact with a vehicle, shoot something else, and then attack the vehicle?

Makes that Dakka fex a little bit better..

No you would charge the vehicle, fail to destroy it in your assault phase, then fail to destroy it in his assault phase, Then you may shoot at another target in your shooting phase