Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

yes they can be very good but...
Are there any ideas for wargear out there that could be used instead of or in conjunction to markerlights?

A lot has been said that tau should have a higher natural bs but i agree that they shouldn't 'cos fluff says

one thought i had was a upgrade for the firewarriors that cost a few points per model and the whole squad had to take it
this gives +1 to bs to that squad as long as 60%-70% of the original squad is on the feild

kind of like a targeting array which uses 12 different helmets to co-ordinate fire, 'cos this improves tau shooting ability and is in line with the fluff

thoughts?

Right guys.

I've had to delete a couple of OT messages.



I assume you are not considering replacing markerlights but adding some other types of wargear or rules which would suit the Tau fighting style.

Here are a few ideas off the top of my head.

1. A "Darkness" generator which imposes night fighting conditions on all or part of the battlefield. It could be a some high-tech field device or a massive fog generator. If I remember correctly, markerlights negate the night fighting penalties.

2. Different types of seeker missile. At the moment we have one type with a moderately high strength warhead which is only useful against light vehicles or tough characters. How about a selection of warheads like SMs get in their various missile launchers?

3. A homing beacon which tracks the conjunction of two or three markerlights and does the same job as the Positional Beacon.

4. A defensive fire rule which allows units with markerlights to bring in support fire from other units when they are assaulted. This would be a kind of opportunity fire but only allowed combined with the use of markerlights.

5. An item which allows Tau units (including Vespids, Kroot and drones) to increase their Initiative when assaulting, or reduces the enemy's cover benefit. + 1 I for each markerlight token spent.

6. Your multi-model Target Array idea, and it allows +2 to BS when one markerlight token is spent. No more than one can be spent on a single unit's firing. It stops working when the Firewarrior unit is below 7 models.

7. For sniper units only, -1 to the target's armour or invulnerable save per markerlight token spent. (Picking weak points in the armour/shield.)

8. Allow multiple seeker missile strikes against a single markerlight.

9. For each markerlight token spent, a wound from a unit with Pinning weapons is doubled to two wounds.

Enough from me, let other people have a go...

I dont think so much about fire warriors, but I think the targetting array should be free for suits. the people in them are veterans, and should surely know how to shoot well by know. (even shas'vre bodyguards and elite team leaders have bs3, when commanders can have bs 5? how do they suddenly become 66% better between those times?).

Upgrading firewarriors wont be too productive in the long run, and its kind of unfair to give pretty much everything in the tau army killer bs.

i like 2 and 7

and i agree to a degree

i think that body-gaurds should have bs 4

the great and mighty oz wrote:i like 2 and 7

and i agree to a degree

i think that body-gaurds should have bs 4

Yeah, bodyguards and Elites really don't get a high enough BS for what they are. I can understand why FWs would have lower BS, but why do elite warriors who have fought in enough battles to become honored with Crisis armour have the same ability to shoot as a fresh-out-of-boot fire warrior?

Fun suggestions Kilkrazy

Kilkrazy wrote:1. A "Darkness" generator which imposes night fighting conditions on all or part of the battlefield. It could be a some high-tech field device or a massive fog generator. If I remember correctly, markerlights negate the night fighting penalties.

Neat, I'd probably just go with letting more (or everything) have access to the Stealth field that the stealth suits, and leave the 'blotting out the sun' items to folks like the Dark Eldar and the Necrons. This would be a good way to give them a chance to win a shooting war with the IG, which otherwise they tend to..well not.

Kilkrazy wrote:2. Different types of seeker missile. At the moment we have one type with a moderately high strength warhead which is only useful against light vehicles or tough characters. How about a selection of warheads like SMs get in their various missile launchers?

Word, I'd only add that they'd want to make sure to make it something they define when firing (like the Whirlwind or Thunderfire), call it a smart warhead or some such, that can be programmed on the fly so they are not stuck with one type or the other. I'm unimpressed with it being a Hunter Killer Missile and would up its stats a bit on the anti-armour side as well. Oh and they should get two free on all the Devilfish and Hammerhead, and a bit cheaper Pirahna, and in unlimited supply on the Skyray.

Kilkrazy wrote:3. A homing beacon which tracks the conjunction of two or three markerlights and does the same job as the Positional Beacon.

Good idea, but I'm not sure how you'd write rules to that effect using the current 'hit marker' system, when/if they simplify away from that I'd just allow Deepstrike re-rolls within range and LoS of markerlight units.

Kilkrazy wrote:4. A defensive fire rule which allows units with markerlights to bring in support fire from other units when they are assaulted. This would be a kind of opportunity fire but only allowed combined with the use of markerlights.

This rather reminds me of the fire coordination rules they gave Tau in 4th edition Epic, but I'm not sure how to implement. I've suggested on other Tau idea threads that having drone units as attached escorts to other units (needing to operate within a certain range to remain effective, etc..) similar to the old rules for attached units in one fo the older WHFB Empire army books, in conjunction with this you could allow drones to provide reactive fire when their parent unit is charged, as they have the AI level reaction speeds none of the other army's can match or other similar fluff.

Kilkrazy wrote:5. An item which allows Tau units (including Vespids, Kroot and drones) to increase their Initiative when assaulting, or reduces the enemy's cover benefit. + 1 I for each markerlight token spent.

Again I'm not sure how this might work (especially given 5th editions rules on when assaulters take the initiative penalty). Good idea though.

Kilkrazy wrote:6. Your multi-model Target Array idea, and it allows +2 to BS when one markerlight token is spent. No more than one can be spent on a single unit's firing. It stops working when the Firewarrior unit is below 7 models.

Kilkrazy wrote:7. For sniper units only, -1 to the target's armour or invulnerable save per markerlight token spent. (Picking weak points in the armour/shield.)

Hmm, a bit wonky. perhaps a re-roll of successful saves instead?

Kilkrazy wrote:8. Allow multiple seeker missile strikes against a single markerlight.

Agreed.

Kilkrazy wrote:9. For each markerlight token spent, a wound from a unit with Pinning weapons is doubled to two wounds.

This, of course only works if you interpret the Pinning rules a certain way.

Kilkrazy wrote:Enough from me, let other people have a go...

I'll add some later

Jack

P.S. I really need to behave worse so I can get a fun lol-japanese girl image...

I think it would be cool if a tau unit fired at the same enemy unit for two consecutive turns and did nothing else (move shoot ect) they should automatically hit with their weapons.


I think this might be a bit ott. Could work well with fire warriors squads.

The Acolyte wrote:I think it would be cool if a tau unit fired at the same enemy unit for two consecutive turns and did nothing else (move shoot ect) they should automatically hit with their weapons.


I think this might be a bit ott. Could work well with fire warriors squads.

I've suggested something similar, but simpler as a markerlight alternative:

Give Firewarriors a special rule called target designation or markerlights or similar with the following affect:

Any unit firing at a squad previously hit by a Firewarrior unit that shooting phase counts its weapons as twin-linked.

And roll the other markerlight effects as bonuses on other units.

Jack

Here's a few ideas:

1) Hardwired Targetting Arrays

2) Ethereals all have hardwired shield generators, but have far weaker stats (why are they so much harder than FWs?).

3) Their Honourguard count as a scoring Unit!

4) Command and Control node changes to mean all units within 6" of user can use is leadership for morale checks (to help tau gunlines).

5) Some spec characters that are actually good at shooting...

6) I like that multi targetting array for FWs but it would probably make Tau too good.

7) stealth generators also give +1 cover save

to go off topic what do you think of the xv9's from forge world

i know their still experimental but i think they have got potential as a good fast attack slot other than pathfinders

to go off topic what do you think of the xv9's from forge world

Are those the burstcannon laden ones? I'd have thought they'd be a good alternative to stealth suites. 6 twin linked shots a suit would be great

this is the answer to this thread

Shas'O Tash'var Vera Fali'shir Aun'Ki
Cost: 175 pt

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
5 5 4 4 4 4 3 10 3+

Special character: O'Vera is a special character. He may be used in any tau army wich does not include Aun'va or commander shadowsun. You may not choose any additional equipment from the armoury.

Equipment: XV8 Crisis battlesuit, multi tracker, plasma rifle, cyclic ion blaster, shield generator & bonding knife.

Special rules:
Clever cowards: O'Vera's forces are renowned for laying well prepared ambushes for their enemies, and then vanishing, as soon as their victims comes to close. Any unit in an army led by O'Vera may break off any time they lose an assault phase, regardless of their morale roll. Crisis suit teams in an army led by O'Vera rolls a D6+6 when determining their break of distance.

Hardened Veterans: Many of O'Vera's followers have been there since his break with the greater good, and are by far more skilled in close, as well as ranged combat, than their loyalist counterparts. Any model in an army led by O'Vera may upgrade their WS,BS,I or T by 1 to a maximum of 5, for two points Pr. model. If one model in the unit does so, then all models in that unit must be similarly upgraded. Any models in a Crisis team, may always be upgraded to the rank of Shas'Vre, and thereby gain all the benefits of such for an additional 10 points per model.

Breakaway faction: O'Vera and his followers has fled to the Farsight enclaves, and now visualise Commander Farsight as their leader, rather than the Ethereals. As such, the Forces that may be included in an army led by O'Vera have been limited to better represent this: No Ethereal, Kroot or Vespid may be included in an army, led by O'Vera.

Independent Character: unless accompanied by a bodyguard, O'Vera is an independent character, and follows the independent Characters special rules. If accompanied by drones, he may still join other units.

Note that this profile is “so called” home rules, which means that it has no relations to official games workshop products or rules, and may only be used if your opponent gives you his full acceptance.

@FlingitNow
yup and with defenisve grenades built in as well as vectored retro thrusters

this could be fun up close against orks or nids


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@shas'o vera
why d6+6 when as jump infantry (jet park) they get 3d6
and what about vehicles in the breakaway faction cos farsights limited to 0-1 for most of the good stuff

@the great and mighty oz

well, vehicles in the breakaway faction so my rules state 0-2 for those units that are otherwise 0-1

shas'o vera wrote:this is the answer to this thread

Shas'O Tash'var Vera Fali'shir Aun'Ki
Cost: 175 pt

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
5 5 4 4 4 4 3 10 3+

Special character: O'Vera is a special character. He may be used in any tau army wich does not include Aun'va or commander shadowsun. You may not choose any additional equipment from the armoury.

Equipment: XV8 Crisis battlesuit, multi tracker, plasma rifle, cyclic ion blaster, shield generator & bonding knife.

Special rules:
Clever cowards: O'Vera's forces are renowned for laying well prepared ambushes for their enemies, and then vanishing, as soon as their victims comes to close. Any unit in an army led by O'Vera may break off any time they lose an assault phase, regardless of their morale roll. Crisis suit teams in an army led by O'Vera rolls a D6+6 when determining their break of distance.

Hardened Veterans: Many of O'Vera's followers have been there since his break with the greater good, and are by far more skilled in close, as well as ranged combat, than their loyalist counterparts. Any model in an army led by O'Vera may upgrade their WS,BS,I or T by 1 to a maximum of 5, for two points Pr. model. If one model in the unit does so, then all models in that unit must be similarly upgraded. Any models in a Crisis team, may always be upgraded to the rank of Shas'Vre, and thereby gain all the benefits of such for an additional 10 points per model.

Breakaway faction: O'Vera and his followers has fled to the Farsight enclaves, and now visualise Commander Farsight as their leader, rather than the Ethereals. As such, the Forces that may be included in an army led by O'Vera have been limited to better represent this: No Ethereal, Kroot or Vespid may be included in an army, led by O'Vera.

Independent Character: unless accompanied by a bodyguard, O'Vera is an independent character, and follows the independent Characters special rules. If accompanied by drones, he may still join other units.

Note that this profile is “so called” home rules, which means that it has no relations to official games workshop products or rules, and may only be used if your opponent gives you his full acceptance.

sooo...in a perfect world, new tau codex, fire warriors become 2 cheaper (costing 8) then pay +2 per model making them 10 per model which is what they are now giving them 4bs for 10pts a model.

then bump up the BS of all your suits by 1...id be in heaven everything running at bs 4 naturally, and still having marklights....oh joy



and all the free bonding knives!!! actually kinda offsets his crazy cost

its a good thing i found this in time isn't it?

An odd thought that hit me
for pathfinder markerlights or just in general
what about changing them to heavy2/assult1?

thoughts?

I like the heavy2/assault1 idea, or give an option to twin-link them somehow, so markerlight become more reliable. Oh and give ML drones relentless already...

Last idea... allow drones attacked to FW squads to magnetize to the back of the devilfish or something...

Oh and i had a post on the seeker missiles idea a while back. Keep the standard one. Pay x points and you can fire it as a "fusion" seeker missile, S8 AP1 +d6 if you roll a 6 to hit. Second was the AFB in missile form (str4 ap5 large blast pinning), and one I just thought up of... fire a missile at a unit. roll 2d6 for the number of hits. does that many str 3 ap4, and if a 6 is rolled on a wound it is unsavable (no armor/invuln/cover)

While I like the idea of markerlights, I feel that they are not ubiquitous enough in the army; the best way to get them is with pathfinders, who compete with piranhas for valuable FA slots. Markerdrones are very expensive and compete with Target Locks and Multi-trackers on battlesuits; and given their high cost (30 pts!!) are often a bad choice.

One idea I have seen for markerlights is to allow spending 2 tokens to add +1 to penetrate vehicles.

Allowing vehicles to replace their gun drones (or possible the burst cannon on a 'Fish) with a Markerlight would be awesome.

Giving battlesuits an option for a markerlight weapon would be great (esp for deathrain config crisis suits)

I think Seeker missiles also should be changed to add either a small blast at the same profile as now, or make them an auto-hit with markerlight,