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i made this list to take on my mates Space Wolves on the 5th of december. i know he has a dreadnought and some other odds and ends that i don't know their names of .
All comments will be helpful. except those that contain more than 5 curse words

Ok then here we go

HQ
Skarbrand 300
Fateweaver 333

Elites
5 Flamers 175

Troops
10 Bloodletters 160
10 Bloodletters 160
10 Bloodletters 160
20 Horrors
With an Icon of Chaos 365

Fast Attack
3 Screamers 48
3 Screamers 48

Wave One would hopefuly include:
Fateweaver, The Horrors, The Flamers, 3 of the Screamers and a squad of the Bloodletters
Wave Two would hopefuly include:
Anything not mentioned in wave 1...

Why not take one more flmaer and take 2 squads of 3? more effective I would say. Also, If I were you, I would take 3 squads of 7 horrors, each with bolt off change. It gives you more units in the droip, and give you more anti-tank.

only have 20 horrors though... Good idea though :-)
and i've kinda reached my point limit there as wel...

1750 points is the limit
i has 1749 there :-P

change skarbrannd to a normal bloodcrusher. his ability isn't much of a help since your are going against spacewolves who are a CC oriented army. with the points you can get another flamer and another horror.

agree, skarbrand is pretty beast, and cool--BUT a regular thirster with might of khorne and blessing is the way to go, that will also free up some points

2nd time i only have 20 horrors.
Not can only afford 20 horrors due to points.
have only bought 4 boxes of 5 horrors. 20 horrors! :-P

@zachwho
i assume you mean unholy might and Blessing of the clood god?
if so it frees up 25 points...

Drop a sqaud of 'Letters perhaps?

The list looks pretty good to me. Skarbrand has the breath attack which is pretty darn good.

G

This list does not really seem to take advantage of fateweaver. Bloodletters are good troops but go for bloodcrushers if you have them to take advantage of rerolling 3+ saves.

I agree horrors should be split up, though i might suggest something like 2x5 w/BoC and maybe a 8-10 man squad. I find that if i fire my BoC at tanks then i really miss the rest of my shooting so i like to take the minimum squad size for bolts, and bigger size for shooting infantry.

two squads of Screamers, i mean they are good against tanks, and they will keep him moving at least, but against dreads they are not going to do much of anything (strike 2nd and hit on sixs... not good). I would only say yes to two squads if you thing he is going to use Preds. Otherwise one squad should be a big enough threat to keep his tanks moving.

I would agree with the 2x3 flamers idea. They really are great as suicide troops and i have used them to kill oh so much more than they are worth (best yet was a squad of 7 PMs, 2 wounds on a DP and 2 other PMs from another squad, from 3 flamers)

Skarbrand, YMMV but i dont really like him, i like the guarantee of flight, as well as the ability to run after flying to make him really quick once he has trashed a side. Re-roll to hit and +1 attack is great for Skarbrand, but I find with the amount of cover in my games it usually helps my opponent more than me. Also i almost always find that breath weapons are a bad idea, for two reasons, one he probably should be fleeting to make sure he can charge, two if he is in charge range of two models and kills them both with the template, then he just sits there in the open waiting to be shot.

As a side note though, he does increase the effectiveness of your screamers a lot as it is re-roll to hit, so you can hit anything on a 6, re-rollabe, or most things on a re-rollabe 4+.

My overall impression of the list is that you are not taking advantage of either of the special characters rules enough and that you might want to modify your list to consider that.

i spose i could repalce SB and use Masque? that'd spare me 200 points there. get antoher flamer and then split the squads.

So heres the new Lay out!
HQ
The Masque 100
Fateweaver 333

Elites
3 Flamers 105
3 flamers 105

Troops
10 Bloodletters with an instrument 165
10 Bloodletters with an instrument 165
10 Bloodletters with an instrument 165
5 horrors with BoT and an Icon 120
5 horrors with BoT and an Icon 120
5 horrors with BoT and an Icon 120
5 horrors with BoT and an Icon 120

Fast Attack
6 Screamers 96

1714 points....
where can i invest the remainding 36 points...?
perhaps give one of the horror squads the changeling and an icon to one of the bloodletter squads? brings me up to 1744...
although if i cut the screamers i can hit a soul grinder in taht could take the Dreadnought on in CC right?

Why so many icons? you only need 1 for each wave at most (i run none most of the time). Save some points and drop two of them, probably drop the instruments as well to be honest. That gets you 65 more points, with the 36 that is 101 points in total. Now you can alter your units and pick up something you want. Drop a few screamers for your soul grinder or DP (DP is better against dreads btw)

Soul Grinders are not great against dreads for the simple reason that they are ws3 and i3. So the dread with probably hit first at s 10. He probably will get at least one penetrating and with that he has a good chance of getting any of the 4 results that will hurt you. If he gets a 5-6 you loose, 4 you are useless after combat, 3 and you will still win and only loose an attack or maybe your mawcannon. Your attacks back have a pretty good shot of killing him.
My anti dread DP is either Khorne, Unholy Might, Iron Hide 145pts or for the same price as a soul grinder Tz, UM 135

Bloodthirsters are also good if you decide against the masque because she is too fragile.

so 2 squads of horrors with and icon and 2 without.
The only reason i'd be using the masque would be for a Suicide tema with the flamers. Move some squads nice and tight and then use the flamers BoC to burn em.
so that grants me 197 cus i'm going to drop the screamers.

perhaps another sqaud of 3 flamers?...
and give all 3 squads the BoT gift?
REDO x3!
HQ
The Masque 100
Fateweaver 333

Elites
3 Flamers With bolt of Tzeentch 135
3 Flamers With bolt of Tzeentch 135
3 Flamers With bolt of Tzeentch 135


Troops
10 Bloodletters 160
10 Bloodletters 160
10 Bloodletters 160
5 horrors with BoT and an Icon 120
5 horrors with BoT and an Icon 120
5 horrors with BoT 95
5 horrors with BoT 95

You can only run six troops max. I would combine two of the Bloodletter squads and use the third towards a Grinder or Nurgle DP. I think the Masque will work very well together with Kairos. If Kairos has pavane as well that will work very well together.

G

Combined a Squad of 'letters and added one, combined a squad of horrors so as to take 25 points from the over all cost and took a squad of those Flamers away to make way for my Patented Nurgle DP... Who i luvs dearly as he is awesome... Took down 6 dark eldar raiders on his own before. and then took down an archon with 5 incubi... then died cus he was shot by some annoying lascannon type wep.....


HQ
The Masque 100
Fateweaver 333

Elites
3 Flamers With bolt of Tzeentch 135
3 Flamers With bolt of Tzeentch 135

Troops
21 Bloodletters with instrument and fury of khorne 351
5 horrors with BoT, Icon, changeling and instrument 130
5 horrors with BoT and an Icon and instrument 125
10 horrors with BoT 180

Heavy Support
DP with: 260
Wings
Iron Hide
Unholy Might
Mark Of Nurgle
Noxious Touch
Breath of Chaos


THATS A TOTAL OF 1746

haha i think you are going to hate me, drop the BoTs, they are not worth the points on suicide flamers, who will be dead most of the time after they have killed a unit. Plus with Masque you really want to be killing those lined up infantry.

Kairos doesnt have pavane unfortunately. Also i agree drop some of the bloodletters (you dont need twenty in a squad that is just so overkill). Instead take the points and invest in DP or Grinder.

Grinder with phlem (best upgrade of the bunch and tounge while it looks good, cant be counted on with bs 3)

or one of two DPs:
Shooty: MoT, BoT, Daemonic Gaze (Good against marines, BoT can hurt tanks, DG can glance rhinos or hurt them in the rear.)
CC: MoN, Noxious Touch, Iron Hide, Cloud of Flies (Great against any infantry unit, not quite as tough against tanks as a khorne guy but more resiliant

*hmm much different than before. Well first off no unit of 21 Bloodletters, drop one and make the unit 2x10 again. Gives you points for another BOT if you want.

Out of curiosity why do you like instruments so much? i find them such a waste of points. Your DP, go for it, i like mine cheap but yours is a lot faster and actually has a ranged weapon.

HQ
The Masque 100
Fateweaver 333

Elites
3 Flamers With 105
3 Flamers With 105

Troops
10 Bloodletters with instrument 165
10 Bloodletters with instrument 165
5 horrors with BoT, Icon, changeling and instrument 130
5 horrors with BoT and an Icon and instrument 125
10 horrors with BoT 180

Heavy Support

DP with: 260
Wings
Iron Hide
Unholy Might
Mark Of Nurgle
Noxious Touch
Breath of Chaos


THATS A TOTAL OF 1668 now....
82 points to spend lmao
i swear were going round in circles...
only take the Insturments as a point waster yes, but i use them in the bizzare event of a combat tie :-)
it has happend with skarbrand :-). but then his was free so....

I would run one squad of Bloodletters at 15-20. Ten man units are not big enough and works a lot better for Plague Bearers.

I would definitely keep the Nurgle prince and give him Cloud of Flies for the frag grenade effect... It's only 5 points!

G

Ten men can work, although i admit my current list runs 14. it always seems to be just enough which is perfect, i have ended 4 games with one left that after wiping out the opposing troop choice on the objective wins the game for me. My problem with Plague Bearers is that they just cannot do that, instead the objective just becomes contested for 3 round, when the Plague bearers eventually win (could be much longer).

IMO you dont need the unholy strength in the nurgle prince since he already has noxious and remove breath because if he uses it he can't assult after and if you are only gonna use it for 1 turn(when he comes in) thats a waste of 30 pts right there, might as well go for gaze if you really want the power if you take out all your instruments you can get anther squad of flamers

ok a different thing now.
Everyone pst your alternatives :-)
That way i can see what list for 1750 points would suit everyones tactics

tiekwando wrote:
two squads of Screamers, i mean they are good against tanks, and they will keep him moving at least, but against dreads they are not going to do much of anything (strike 2nd and hit on sixs... not good). I would only say yes to two squads if you thing he is going to use Preds. Otherwise one squad should be a big enough threat to keep his tanks moving.

why would screamers be hitting on sixes?, thought they would use there weapon skill against a dread? (ws 5 i think) so they should be hitting on 4's

Soulgrinders can be cool but they very large and only bs 3 and on a wpn destroyed result they become basically useless. but they do look awesome

Soul Grinders in general are better than DPs though YMMV.

G

@Vox their attack is a melta bomb, so they dont get a bonus attack for charging and against walkers it is always 6s to hit. Also screamers are ws 3.

@green bowfly i feel like we play very different style of daemons, which i think is a good thing because it seems we both have relative success so that means there is no cookie cutter list. I personally love my DPs, though i admit i have only used soul grinders in a few games, and they were proxies which always brings bad luck. Oh the other biggest issue is that we always play with a ton of terrain so in two games one was immobilized at the start...

@Bloodhorror- If i were to modify one of your lists and make it my own it would be

Karios 333
Masque 100
Khorne Herald, Chariot, Unholy Strength 100

3 Flamers 105
3 Flamers 105
3 Flamers 105

14 Bloodletters (for some reason this squad size has been absolutely perfect for me, kills 2 or 3 squads and survives to grab an objective)224
5 Horrors BoT 95
5 Horrors BoT 95
5 Horrors BoT 95
5 Horrors BoT Changling (if you want two icons drop changeling and screamers) 95

3 Screamers (if you like them otherwise drop for 2 icons)

DP- MoN, Noxious Touch, Iron Hide, Flight, Breath, Cloud of Flies 245 (I would prefer 2 DPs over this one but since he works for you then go for it) 245

Gives you 3 run around and kill units, 5 shooty units, and the flamer-masque combo, also the screamers are there to make the enemy move his tanks (a few less shots coming your way) and to contest objectives on the last turn. Remember to turboboost.

If it were completely my own i would tone down DP and try to grab two of them.

Well!
Tahnks everyone for helping me out as i Completly demolished his army.
he had a Dreadnought, Njal, a long fangs squad, a wolf lord, some termis, and 3 blood claws squads?
and i Massacared him!!!
tabled him if it wasn't for one lone model.
Point ofm atch that made me rofl:
Fateweaver turning Njal Stormcaller into a Chaos Spawn

No fiends?

I am wanting a batrep :-)

Great Job!