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Hello everyone. I'm still very much a novice with my Eldar army, and I just picked up a very nice Autarch model. I'm curious as to what the best way to load this fellow out would be? What are your personal favorite ways to use him? Are there even any ways to use him?

Your thoughts.

I use my autarch most times w/mandiblasters for the +1 attack and then have him equipped with the scorpion chainsword for the +1 strength.

I used to use an Autarch, but in general they are underwhelming.

Jetbike, Mandiblaster, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun.
Running around with a seer council.

He gave them more wounds to soak damage, power weapon attacks for power/termy armor, and a fusion gun to go tank hunting alone if I needed it.

It ended up I needed more supporting powers as the points level increased, as opposed to a meh beatstick.

An autarch is a great place to add a fusion gun, and its almost always worthwhile giving him mandibalsters.

They can be added to a seer council to give them a bit more oomph in the assault phase, if you are careful (or feeling lucky) they can join a unit of shining spears as well.

They really shine tho when you have units in reserve, can make a huge difference there.

Unless I was planning on using him to help control my reserve rolls I wouldnt play with an autarch tho.



Sliggoth

If you like/don't hate/own Warp Spiders, an Autarch can be neat with a Warp Jump Generator, Mandiblasters, Fusion Gun and power weapon. Get the Exarch with powerblades and tag the Autarch with them, perhaps Deepstriking. Even with AP - the Death Spinners can still mess up vehicles from behind, as can the fusion gun. If you get charged, odds are you'll get 8 power weapon attacks before your attackers (I6) and if you'll eat lot of shots on your opponent's turn, at least try to get behind some cover with the jump generators in the assault phase. If you wanna play it safer you can always deploy em normally so they can get some of the farseer perks, ie, guide, fortune or a doomed target. If you do have a say whether or not they assault, try to Doom your target as, just like with Banshees, S3 power weapons will only go so far. I guess this sounds like more of an addition to Warp Spiders, but this is the best way I've personally found (short of Yriel) to use an Autarch.

I've never been impressed with +1 reserves.
If he could -1 reserves as well...he may actually be a viable choice for me.

Autarch with 3 units of yo-yo hawks is nice.

@BlueDagger:
Also, around 500 points of mehness. Maybe it’s just cause I don’t play a GEQ army that likes to stand out in the open asking for death…

Yriel is better than nearly any autarch build on foot, as is arguably (esp. if ran with dire avengers).

Farseers are simply so crucial to eldar that autarchs really struggle to find a role.

The problem with autarchs is that by the time you kit them out, you could have purchased a unit of aspect warriors that are more durable (more bodies) and can do more damage (more attacks, shots, etc.).

So unless you're building an army list that a +1 to reserves is crucial for, Autarchs aren't worth using an HQ slot for.

I've seen a dual Autarch build that worked ok. He used three units of war walkers, two units of Scorpions, and two units of warspiders in reserves with Rangers (mebbe upgraded to pathfinders) for troops. He also had a couple of jet bike units. The five outflanking and two deep striking units available on a 2+ on turn two (if he needed it) made for some pretty nasty punches.

Ehh.. not hard to see coming and plan for it.
I say it's a fragile list and almost requires a noobish player to play against to get the most out of it.

Sanctjud wrote:Ehh.. not hard to see coming and plan for it.
I say it's a fragile list and almost requires a noobish player to play against to get the most out of it.

Tactics which rely on a lack of rules knowledge by your opponent are poor ones.

I agree with Sanctjud.

To expand:
Scorpions do not have fleet...that really shafts them when outflanking.
Infiltrating is so strict, even that is not looking good.

Warwalkers are sort of scary, but their charm is short, if you arrive earlier, it just gives more time for the enemy to bolter them to death, if not using other weapons to down their paper thin armor rating.

Rangers have problems in that they bend over in combat, and GW has moved towards more weapons ignoring cover saves that also ignore 5+ armor.

Jetbikes do NOT want to get into the game early, which the Autarch has no say on that matter.
As last minute grabbers, less time on the board and closer to 5 the better... but they don't last, so turn 5 is really where you want it to end...in addition, 'last minute grabs' don't always work.... it's not like a tank that can shock the enemy to 'make' space to get into 3".

Warpspiders are mixed bag...but I won't talk about them too much as I don't have enough resources to focus on them.

Sanctjud wrote:@BlueDagger:
Also, around 500 points of mehness. Maybe it’s just cause I don’t play a GEQ army that likes to stand out in the open asking for death…

I actually play mech ork, CSM, valk IG, crons, CC deamons, and mech tau.

- Last mintue contesting/firing off an objective

- One unit with a melta that can DS behind a tank any turn it cares to

- 3 Large Blast with unlimited range, barrage cover rules, and a D6 scatter

- Can escape CC if actually caught in it for some reason

- If cared to they can glance/pen a tank to death


Yup Mehness though most people don't know how to play with them

Here's a link to my warp spider tactica if anyone cares:

On the Care and Feeding of Warp Spiders

I should probably make it an article.

@BlueDagger:

- Last mintue contesting/firing off an objective

The weapon fire is very desperate, and I guess every little bit helps, but their shooting is reall poor…at least against the armies I play.
As for last minute contesting…..this is wishful thinking.
DSing near/on target, then getting a run move to get within 3”… I’m sorry, but that’s just stupid. An opponent doesn’t have to stand ON the objective.
He can easily form a ringish around the objective be in 3” and have a 1” buffer zone around his own guys that you can’t tread on.

The only time it works is if the opponent solely relies on capping objectives sitting in a metal box.

- One unit with a melta that can DS behind a tank any turn it cares to

DSing behind a tank even at around 12” away can be dangerous.
In addition, you are in blast formation and can’t skyleap if you commit, which means 2 kill points or an easy kill sitting right there.

- 3 Large Blast with unlimited range, barrage cover rules, and a D6 scatter

2” coherency, area terrain, actually being in cover as opposed to just being behind a wall, transports.

- Can escape CC if actually caught in it for some reason

Yea, but they have to actually survive it, and I’ve not seem Hawks survive past a shooting phase, let alone the assault phase.

- If cared to they can glance/pen a tank to death

That means you have to commit them A TURN later. That in itself is a downer right there.

/shrug, to each their own...hawks don't appeal to me in every way. They are one trick ponies that only really do well against exposed GEQ...which is something the rest of the Eldar army does well already. For any other role, there are better options.

I agree that hitting the back of a tank with just the Autarch is a little too risky for my taste, thus give him a WS Jump Generator, drop them behind a tank and shoot along with the Spiders. They can also get out of the way after shooting. But I do agree with them being able to take objectives late game, esp with 3 units. If you were playing Cap. & Control it would be worth committing all 3 units to getting the other guys point, which I think they'd have a decent chance of doing against anything short of TEQ or a 10 man Wraithguard unit. If that ring were made with, say MEQ, they'd drop 3 S4 AP5 large blasts on them and shoot with 1-2 units consisting of 8-16 BS4 S3 shots, the Exarch shooting at BS5 with either 3 S5 shots or 6 S3 shots. Not a sure thing, but a good chance at making sufficient room to contest. This' also assuming the Eldar player has lost everything else in their army short of the Hawks.

Mr. Mayhem wrote:I agree that hitting the back of a tank with just the Autarch is a little too risky for my taste, thus give him a WS Jump Generator, drop them behind a tank and shoot along with the Spiders. They can also get out of the way after shooting. But I do agree with them being able to take objectives late game, esp with 3 units. If you were playing Cap. & Control it would be worth committing all 3 units to getting the other guys point, which I think they'd have a decent chance of doing against anything short of TEQ or a 10 man Wraithguard unit. If that ring were made with, say MEQ, they'd drop 3 S4 AP5 large blasts on them and shoot with 1-2 units consisting of 8-16 BS4 S3 shots, the Exarch shooting at BS5 with either 3 S5 shots or 6 S3 shots. Not a sure thing, but a good chance at making sufficient room to contest. This' also assuming the Eldar player has lost everything else in their army short of the Hawks.

I've done two matches so far where I've landed my Autarch right behind a Vindicator once and a Venerable Dread another. Both times I removed the threat and by that point in the game there wasn't anything in retaliation range.

Another time I landed in front/side of 2 medusas (damn you inquisitor manticore combo) and lit them up with melta and Hawks Talon glancing off a weapon on one and wrecking the other. Nothing in range to take them out afterward.

Another game I landed 2 unit next to a 5 man scout marine squad, yeah... they didn't live. Jetbikes were able to cap uncontested via turbo-boost to the location.

There is units that can do what the hawks can do better, but the jack of all trades trait of the unit makes them rather unpredictable.

But enough about Hawks, that is thread jacking.

While probably not of any use to the original poster, I do have some advice on how to use a bike-mounted Autarch, since I use one all the time with my mechanized list.

I always give him mandiblasters and a laser lance, with a fusion gun if I can swing the points. I also always stick him in a full squad of Shining Spears (with an Exarch). The rest of the army is composed of Fire Prisms and various Aspect Warrior squads in Wave Serpents.

When I don't have first turn and I'm fighting an army with good first turn punch (eg. Drop Pod Marines, Imperial Guard) I start off with the entire army in reserve. The Autarch ensures that the army comes in from reserves quicky, which allows me to land the first punch and hit the enemy in a weak spot if he deployed poorly. The +1 to reserves rolls isn't great, but against those kinds of armies it's a life saver. It's also good if you are playing on a board with little terrain and you need either a surprise manuver to catch your opponent off guard or you just need to have your stuff start off moving fast to get cover saves.

In combat the Autarch is really great, especially with the Spears backing him up. Usually only one or two Spears survive to get into combat but that's usually enough. They can kill a metric ton of, well, really anything if they charge, and they're decent at killing tanks too. The high initative on the Autarch and the Exarch are good for killing enemy characters before they strike, so target independent characters first.

The key is to advance on the flank of the enemy army where only a few of his units will be able to shoot you and where (hopefully) line of sight will be blocked by terrain, your tanks, etc. Then soften up the enemy with a few shots from your tanks and charge in. Try to pick on isolated units so your boys don't get charged by the opponent, and don't expose the bikes unnecessarily. Lots of times it can be worth it to have the Spears start off in reserve but deploy the rest of your army, then bring them on later once the enemy has been softened up a bit.

Sanctjud wrote:Ehh.. not hard to see coming and plan for it.
I say it's a fragile list and almost requires a noobish player to play against to get the most out of it.

The selective reading of my post is very nice of you. The first thing I said is that it was an "ok" build. Not great. Not spectacular. Not even a reference to a power build. But every now and then, when the dice rolls worked favorably, it allowed the Eldar player to quickly stack one side of the table and take roughly half of an opponents army out of the fight. Its tough to recover when three war walkers squads appear on the same side of the table and decimate everything close to them (which mathematically happens 30% of the time). I have also seen him simply hold the Scorpions in reserve and use the Wave Serpents speed to put them in the same side of the fight as his war walkers depending on the opponent.

Against experienced players, it is probably a tough list that requires good manuevering to pull out a victory but its not weak enough that you need to disparage it outright. In fact, I would encourage you to try it. For someone who routinely posts that they are open-minded with an holistic approach, you are extremely condescending in your replies and do not seem open to other opinions or experiences.

@PanzerLeader

/shrug, I wouldn't call it performing "ok" even.
Assuming I was selectively reading was very nice of you.

I don't generally compare things to power builds... when I look at an Eldar list I look at 2 things mainly:
1. Trap Building: This list does not build traps past the reserve roll.
2. Long Term Plan: Is poor. Reliance on pathfinders to come as late as possible and run to objectives…

Soooo…/shrug, it doesn’t look good in my point of view. You can disagree and we can discuss this, but you don’t have to make it personal.
Nor, do I feel like putting down my whole life story to explain my view point, but I guess you really wanted to know

____________________

As I've said, the Warwalkers do put out alot of hurt.
The Autarch only helps so much though, it does not help with getting everyone on the right side.
Scorpoins in reserves is meh. The most they do is look intimidating. They won’t get a charge.

Oh, you did not mention using Scorps in a serpent. That changes things just a little bit in terms of Trap Building.
Still, it’s a turn delayed to get anything out of them.

The original list does not appeal to me. It offers nothing I generally want in an elder list.

As to the holistic approach…hell one army at a time good sir.
I don’t think everyone has the time or money to be the ‘ideal’ gamer and try everything.
I would love to love to hate it.

I use my Crap Legion for fun purposes, not even to perform ‘ok’.
By that ‘ok’ it sounded as if it was taken seriously…which is not what I do for my Crap Legion.

In addition you are misinterpreting my open-minded and holistic approach: I reserve that for the Chaos Space Marine army. *&* (foot note below)
OR
I challenge the viability, only to help.
If you’ve seen my ‘holistic’ shpeal then you must have read how I try to rain on parades.

Just throwing down a list with some deployment notes doesn’t really say a whole lot…I could have asked how you used it, but questioning each mode’s usage is just my normal reaction.
Your post just now does help, it explains how one uses it, or what it wants to accomplish.

If I insulted anything it would be the list, not the person you saw using the list, so I don’t think you need to get snippy with me and getting all personal about it.
I question the viability of the list, you show everyone that it works…win/win.

(Footnote: YES, I do preach a holistic and open-minded way to approach the Chaos Codex…because I’ve used Crap Legion.
See, it’s a process… to bash on something, have others or I use it and then re-evaluate it several months away… Now, I know what I know from my Chaos army, and I don’t play elder as much as I’d like to, but I view games as well and have the opposite experiences with those lists as you proposed.
Now… if I had the time and money to focus on my elder… I’d most certainly go with CrapWorld Eldar and go to town, but right now from a serious (not even competitive) standpoint, it (the initial list you presented) just doesn’t have the traditional elements to a successful Eldar list.
Now it could be breaking the mold, but I’m not sold on it yet.)

@ sanctjud: Not getting personal. Just trying to make the observation that short/terse posts are easy to see as being condescending even if thats not the intent.

As to long term planning, I agree that this list is pretty fragile. Pathfinders, even with a 2+ cover, are still susceptible to mass small arms/high RoF weapons and even without using the Autarch's pluses to reserve rolls the Jetbikes still come in too early. And heaven forbid someone successfully manuevers a flame template anywhere near his pathfinders. Very quick and fiery death.

As to trap building, perhaps its the play style he commonly uses but its deceptively good at building fire traps. He will use the pathfinders infiltrate to place them at about the 36" range, either near objectives or critical pieces of terrain to force the enemy to manuever down a specific corridor or two that will leave them exposed or strung out. He is very careful with objective placement to try and place the deciding objective where he wants it to go. It is especially effective against opponents who try to deploy evenly so as to cover either flank and who subsequently form almost a column on the table as they respond to his infiltration. This generally allows his warwalkers to get side or rear shots when they arrive, aiming at the middle or rear of the enemies line to split the force into discrete parts. I've tried to powerpoint it as an attachment because its a slightly difficult concept to explain with just words. Hopefully the attachment helps explain his general scheme of maneuver.

But it has no certainty, or if that isn't a good way of saying it, it's not reliable.
The elements involved are coming in on random times. Certainly you can plan for the Autarch's bonuses to apply early on, but there is no guarentee.

In addition, that's assuming the enemy is only bent on raping pathfinders in combat and is slow to react and keeps together.

As I said, it doesn't build traps past the reserve roll.
Luring the opponent: is something that just doesn't exist IMO.
He has to go there... you pray for the right stuff to come in and kick them back off and get back on... but it's never that simple and only works once.

As to deploying evenly, I don't think I've seen that in a while.
3 Obj, focus on the 2 closest
4 Obj, focus on the 2 closest, contest third.
5 Obj, focus on the 3 closest, contest four.
At least in my area, most favor one side.

Which means:
1/3 of the time units are on the wrong side.
Of the units on the right side, they are coming piecemeal to deal with say.... 70-80% of the enemy army.

It's hard to explain because... ....I agree, it is hard to explain. As we both agree it's fragile...and that means it takes extreme care, which also means alot goes on in the choice to commit/apply units...

It works because he knows what he's doing. As for the placement of objectives...the issue is the troops to claim it are not ideal.

Can it work? Yes, but it's not a forgiving list and gives the illusion of being flexible... it's not. Most of the muscle comes from the Warwalkers...and they seem overworked and pivitol to the army. The other options can only survive and be applied to reserves.

Though reserves is a powerful thing, it's good to hide out in there, which makes the Autarch's 'bonus' more of a let down.

As I said, objective placement is part of the plan. He usually manages a trade off where you ignore the pathfinders but let them claim an objective or manuever something against them. I've also seen him routinely spread his objectives far apart to take advantage of his manueverability and the outflanking. Even when an opponent concentrates his objectives, he generally has to split something off to contest one of the far off ones unless its a 3 or 5 objective game and he gets to place the majority of them. Is it 100% reliable? No, but no army ever really is. But as far as general tactics go, its a decent dual autarch list that wins alot of games through objective placement and maneuver rather than outright kill power.