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HQ:
Company Command Squad
w/ 4x Meltaguns, Astropath
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[175]

Troops:
(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

Fast Attack:
Vendetta
[130]

Vendetta
[130]

Bane Wolf
w/ Multi-melta
[145]

Heavy:
Leman Russ Demolisher
w/ Hull Heavy Flamer
[165]

Leman Russ Executioner
w/ Hull Heavy Flamer, Plasma Cannon Sponsons
[230]

On the 19th, I have a tourney to attend. Debating on the above as a viable list. I expect a lot of MEQ, Nidzilla, Eldar, and whatnot. I really don't expect a lot of hordes, but I can't rule them out. This list should be able to do the trick, but I am not sure. I tested it tonight and it did well enough, but I played too cautious and only managed a draw. I could think of anything else to do with the list, so I am open for ideas.

Any thoughts?

my only thought, is that if I saw that list across the table from me, even in a tournament setting, i'd probably say GG and just refuse to play.

but thats just me.

Horst wrote:my only thought, is that if I saw that list across the table from me, even in a tournament setting, i'd probably say GG and just refuse to play.

but thats just me.

...perfect.

Eh eh... think of 180 slugga boyz running at you screaming. You are dead in that case. Drop two chimeras because some of the vet squads will use vendettas as transports. Give shotguns to those and demolition. If you begin, scout, if not outflank. Make two of other vet squad heavy flamer guys with two other flamers. Shotguns here too. Basically take shotguns everywhere because your weapons have only 12" range and only 5 lasgun firing instead of moving the tank is not good. Executioner will be enemies target priority, probably dead by turn 1. Otherwise it is a bit cheesy but good. You have to make good dance around you enemy to win.

Well, I will never have to face a Green Tide list anytime soon. That is not a going concern at all. The Vendettas can carry troops, but I prefer to leave them empty to make them slightly less of a liability if they get blown up.

Also, for Vets, using Flamers is just a waste of such an awesome BS. If I did that, I could just for for a PCS instead, opting for some infantry. However, that is really only something I use at 2000pt.

The Shotgun issue is moot, because my guys inside can rapid fire if I move and I can fire my Meltas from them too, which I do.

True enough about the Executioner. Seems no one wants it around. That goes for the Demolisher, too.

What does everyone think of going for a Hellhound over the Bane Wolf? Someone suggested this and I am mulling it over.

Horst wrote:my only thought, is that if I saw that list across the table from me, even in a tournament setting, i'd probably say GG and just refuse to play.

but thats just me.

5th is all about Mech.

Is your list that unprepared for Mech?

Is just giving up the right decision?

Shouldn't you at least give it a go?

Which example (that list or not playing it?) is the 'best' example of bad sportsmanship?

Hellhound is best thing in guard list along with vendetta. Yea you can rapid fire when in range not moving. You can shoot shotguns too because they are assault. What penalty do you see? Flamer vets are not waste because you can have three of them possibly one heavy + two heavy from chimera. Thats a lot of flame everywhere.

I'm going to say spot on list. But reason is is because this list mirrors mine, mostly.

I have one more Hellhound, mine run in a squadron and I run with a few flamer vets and a Executioner.

By the way, I should have mentioned that I do in fact prefer to play a more 'comp friendly' type of game.

I do, however, also realize that, unless stated up front, many tournaments here in the US aren't going to be governed with that in mind...

I can't say they will have same mentality.

I ran a very similar list, and while it sounds obvious, keep in mind that melta guns only have a 12" range. That means the bulk of your anti-tank won't do much in turn 1. I've grown a lot more comfortable since I dropped a vet squad or two for a platoon with quad flamer PCS, AC/gL squads for anti-mech, and sometimes SWS in my birds.

If you play a lot of marines, this list will grind them down, but there are some huge holes for it (Nidzilla in particular).

Tourneys in czech republic are pure cheese. There is so much cheese that mice run all over the country to eat there.

Polonius wrote:I ran a very similar list, and while it sounds obvious, keep in mind that melta guns only have a 12" range. That means the bulk of your anti-tank won't do much in turn 1. I've grown a lot more comfortable since I dropped a vet squad or two for a platoon with quad flamer PCS, AC/gL squads for anti-mech, and sometimes SWS in my birds.

If you play a lot of marines, this list will grind them down, but there are some huge holes for it (Nidzilla in particular).

How do you figure? There's not a single unit in the army that can't wound the average monstrous creature on a 2+ with 1-4 shots. Almost all of those will ignore their armor.

What exactly can the average carnifex horde do to a proper armored army in the first place? If they get close, move more than 6". If they stay at range... laugh at them. Glancing only and AP -, oh boy. If they do manage to pop a tank, you pass your pinning test and melt their faces off in your next turn with your un-engaged veteran squad.

If there's a counter this list has it'll be DE with a crapload of shadow fielded ravagers (your meltas are powerless oh noes) or a strong foot guard list, not any sort of tyranid army. At least not for the next 2 months.

I'm not a big fan of Executioners. I think they're much better replaced by Vendettas. I'd ditch the Executioner, the Bane Wolf, and a unit of Veterans (bear with me) in exchange for another Vendetta, a Demolisher as armed above, and an infantry platoon. Give the command section some flamers and maybe a demo charge (can't recall if they can take them or not...), and give the 2 infantry units flamers. Add autocannons to the infantry if you feel like it. Heavy bolters on the Vendettas seem weird, but they are a must. (10 points for 2 heavy bolters? Come on!) If you have the points, run heavy flamer sponsons on the Demolishers.

Anyway, what you want to do is put the infantry units in the Vendettas (which should all be separate Fast Attack choices) to make them scoring and give you some extra mobile crowd control, should you need it. The command section will be particularly good at dusting off enemy objectives.

Tyranids will eat this list alive as it is. Average swarm can open your chimeras and then kill off your infantry. They can also outflank rending genestealers to kill you better armour value (demolisher). I am not fan of executioner but only because of their cost. Vendettas are along with hellhound best thing in list. Demolisher wont take sponsons.. too expensive. You need hull lascannon for S and AP of guns to match. Dozer blade is optional. When you are going mech infantry platoons NEVER EVER!! Heavy bolters on vendettas... hahaha good joke man! Vendetta is anti tank gunship not heavy bolter with wierd firing arc carrier. Vendettas need their cargo, dont squadron other vehicles than sentinels and sometimes 2 lemans. Best cargo for vendetta is melta or flamer squad with demolitions and shotguns.

Man, what's with all the tyranid fear? Are people playing with pre-release codices already or something?

They can also outflank rending genestealers to kill you better armour value (demolisher).

It takes about 30 genestealers to reliably take down a demolisher that's being responsible. It takes 15 to take down one that's not. Lol, fear the board edges? Not really.

Average swarm can open your chimeras and then kill off your infantry.

With what, exactly? CC is unreliable at popping tanks (particularly from an army that relies on either volume of attacks from things that don't have the attacks, like carnifexes, or fragile targets like genestealers actually getting there), so that leaves... Zoanthropes? lol

He's got more than enough high str high AP weapons to pop those suckers before they get in range to do anything, and once they do get in range they're only BS3. After all that, you have a maximum of 3 per army. To kill his 9 av12 vehicles and 2 av14s. Right.

Heavy bolters on vendettas... hahaha good joke man! Vendetta is anti tank gunship not heavy bolter with wierd firing arc carrier.

10 points to keep your lascannon dudes from being 100% useless vs light targets and to potentially keep them up and running longer (though not likely) if you suffer a crapload of weapon destroyed results. That's a damn good bargain.

30 genestealers would almost reliably take down 3 land riders...

Tyranids WILL kill you with loads of glancing hits from shooting/cc with warriors or scythe gaunts or zoans... Thats statistic.

I dont understand your post about vendetta. But heavy bolters suck. Only one will fire (if). Doesnt share target type. When HB is firing one of wing lascannons will not. And the front one will not fire too probably. You will not suffer 5 weapon destroyed results unless being blown in process too. It will not help you at all and is terrible waste of points.

w0chtulka wrote:30 genestealers would almost reliably take down 3 land riders...

The average genestealer can't even hurt land raiders.

6 + 4 + 3 = 13!

If you pay for overpriced toxin sacs you can glance them. Maybe. Sometimes. Not often enough.

Tyranids WILL kill you with loads of glancing hits from shooting/cc with warriors or scythe gaunts or zoans... Thats statistic.

Not at an even points value. You mentioned killing demolishers - those are armor 11 on the back, so yeah, good luck swarming those with s3/4 gaunts. lol

If you assault somewhere he isn't prepared for you're hitting on 4s. That you can reliably do with 10 genestealers. Of course, if he wasn't moving 6+ he was shooting at you, so you probably don't have 10 genestealers.

If the guard player knows you're going to assault, he'll move more than 6". If he moves more than 6", 30 genestealers charging (assuming your blob-o-nidz which somehow didn't get shot to hell can get all 30 within 2" of the front row, which isn't always the case) then your 90 attacks come down to 2.5 rending hits, which is about what you need to be guaranteed a destroyed result of some flavor.

That comes to 500-600 points depending on how they're upgraded to take out a 150-250 point tank. How many more points do you sacrifice to get them close? Oh, you're outflanking? So you rely on rolling 3 separate squads coming in on the same side to be effective? Good luck. What do you do if he decides that he's got enough room on the table with a full third of your army absent to just stay away from the edges? Rank him down on sportsmanship for not playing your game? lol

Yeah, nids don't have troubles with vehicles. Right.

I dont understand your post about vendetta. But heavy bolters suck. Only one will fire (if). Doesnt share target type. When HB is firing one of wing lascannons will not. And the front one will not fire too probably. You will not suffer 5 weapon destroyed results unless being blown in process too. It will not help you at all and is terrible waste of points.

10 points to turn an anti-vehicle/heavy infantry only unit into something that's decent at engaging any target. All 5 guns can shoot if you move 6" or less, and all 5 can face forwards (really, they can, take a look at the model and you'll see).

What else does 10 points get you? 2 guardsmen? One veteran? You shoot those heavy bolters one time, in one round of a 3 game tournament and they make their points back.

Honestly I think you're overweighted on MEq killing stuff.

All those Meltas, plus Vendettas, PLUS a Plascutioner? Yikes.

I'd consider giving 1 or 2 of the Vet squads Flamers. Freed up points will buy you HBolters for your Vendettas.

Also, you might want to look at a Psyker Battle Squad. They still bring a decent template, but they can also really surprise people. Get a squad under half with shooting, they're done for the day. Get 25% off of any squad, and have somebody escort them off the table.

All 5 guns can shoot if you move 6" or less, and all 5 can face forwards (really, they can, take a look at the model and you'll see).

The HBolters are sponson weapons, so they can most certainly point forward (I'm agreeing with you, just restating the point here).

The thing with Vendettas, is that they're coming in on the outflank, which means they can easily come on 6" and then shoot all their stuff. Yes this might make them vulnerable, but a lot of the time there are so many other targets, you can't spare the shooting to deal with them, so they can motor along at <6" per round, and blast the crap out of things.

If people DO decide to fire on them, they're still AV12, and then, if they blow up, they're so friggin horribly undercosted, who cares?

There are a lot of armies that would pay 130 points for ONE turn of shooting 3x T-L Lascannons at rear or side armor. This stupid thing does that, plus brings 12 dudes to objectives, plus is a respectable AV12, plus is the size of a real life Cessna.

Well, this list (with the Hellhound over Bane Wolf) managed to get a concession from a Nidzilla player, because he lost all hope of winning. It also tabled a Battlewagon Brigade list (Thraka, 4 Wagons, MANz, etc). I don't see how it is too much MEQ stuff, when it can kill other stuff too. MC, tanks, TEQ, etc etc. Putting Flamers on a BS4 Veteran is just an absolute waste. Better to use a PCS for that duty, where an inferior BS ensures less shots with better weapons, thus suiting the template auto-hits.

@Phryxis - I love your analysis of the Vendetta. While I agree on all counts, I am not sure BS3 HBs are really worth it. I almost never run out of targets for them, between tanks, MCs, and TEQ/MEQ, I usually have a target or three that deserve some lascannon love.

Anyhow, any other possible ideas before I really commit to it for the tourney? I think its a strong contender given my metagame, which does not really have too much horde elements and is certainly MEQ heavy.

I say go for it. I like the look of this list. The only thing I eye suspiciously is the Executioner, but I am guilty of putting one in my lists as well so I guess I can't really say anything!

If by some chance you do encounter hordes, just don't forget how dangerous the simple lasgun can be en masse. Get those squads out on foot and get the FRFSRF orders on them and watch opponents drop like flies... with support from the tanks, this army should be able to hold its own even against hordes.

Here is a new list I am considering for the upcoming tourney:

HQ:
Company Command Squad
w/ 4x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[145]

Troops:
(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

(10) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

Fast Attack:
Vendetta
[130]

Vendetta
[130]

Hellhound
w/ Multi-melta, Smoke Launchers
[150]

Heavy:
Leman Russ Demolisher
w/ Hull Lascannon
[180]

Leman Russ Demolisher
w/ Hull Heavy Flamer
[165]

Leman Russ Executioner
w/ Hull Heavy Flamer, Plasma Cannon Sponsons
[230]

[1750]

Thoughts?

Its 11 vehicles at 1750. You have anit-MEQ, anti-horde, and anit-tank.

Whats not to like? Looks good to me.

Took 3rd Place. Rotten rolls on the first game really killed me. Overall, the list was brutal and had the guy I played not rolled exceptionally well and "had Dawn of War" on his side, I most likely would have wasted him. Footslogging Wolves?

The dice gods can turn on anyone, though. Such is life.

What was the guy using? Foot Wolves can be deceptively strong...

Fetterkey wrote:What was the guy using? Foot Wolves can be deceptively strong...

5-man Thunderwolf Pack, Plas/Las Long Fangs, 3x Grey Hunter Packs, Bjorn, a single TH/SS Lone Wolf, and a squad of Wolf Scouts (PFist Guard attached).

It should have been a rather simple mission, but the table was seriously in his favor. The only terrain was near the four corners and he could put his Long Fangs into neat, safe firing positions with lanes going straight into my army, allowing his guys to hoof it to the nearest cover in the center of the board. His rolls were on fire, though. That was a huge deal and sealed it up for him.

Had it been on any other table, where terrain was more balanced, or had I rolled even half as well as I did the rest of the day, it might have been a tie. Instead, I lost by a single objective (or it would have tied).

Ouch. That sounds like an unfortunate situation-- under normal circumstances, I doubt your list would have much trouble with an army like that.