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I'm currently about to buy a brand new tournament SM army.

I'm looking to build an army around one of the Special Characters in the book. I don't want to run Vulkan I think he is overdone. I'm looking at two possible lists atm.

The first is a OTT raven guard army.

Shrike

10 Assault Terminators TH/SS 400pts
10 Assault Terminators TH/SS 400pts

10 Tactical Squad-Missile Launcher-Meltagun-Las/plas Razorback 250pts
10 Tactical Squad-Missile Launcher-Meltagun-Las/plas Razorback 250pts
10 Tactical Squad-Missile Launcher-Meltagun-Las/plas Razorback 250pts

Pretty Simple Shrike makes like a Ninja with one of the Terminator squads. The other squad fleets up the board while the tac marines take objectives and lay down suport fire.

And the Second is a White Scars army

Khan on Bike

8 Assault Terminators TH/SS LRC-EA 585pts

Full Bike Squad-2xMelta-1xMultimelta-Powerfist-CombiFlamer 320pts
Full Bike Squad-2xMelta-1xMultimelta-Powerfist-CombiFlamer 320pts
Full Bike Squad-2xMelta-1xMultimelta-Powerfist-CombiFlamer 320pts

Only reason I'm taking Khan over a normal captain is so if I don't get first turn I can Outflank with my entire army

one thing to know... tac squads aren't powerful enough, so don't take them as troops for a truly competitive army...

this leaves you with a few options: Grey Knights, Scouts, and Bikes.

your second list is OK, but that one raider is your only vehicle... and will die REALLY FREAKING FAST. so thats a bad idea. the shrike list also strikes me as a fairly poor list... the assault terminators, against the right type of army, would get their asses spanked. orks would walk all over them.

so, here's my suggestion if you want to do bikes...

khan + command squad of lightning claws / power swords... to take down enemy deathstar units

biker libby with vortex + null zone

2 full bike squads w/ flamers + heavy bolters for horde control (maybe 1 with plasma/multimelta for anti-heavy infantry)
as many min sized bike squads with meltas out the ass as you can fit.

I'd consider the first list.
The 2nd list has too many caveats.
Outflanking is an option but your units eventually arrive randomly
which would allow the enemy to deal with unit by unit.

Do the second list but with Shrike instead of Khan as a HQ

I like the first list.

But...
Razorbacks, no matter what weapon you put on them, are still AV11, so they will get targeted and crushed quickly if you have something awesome like Las/Plas on there. Fun to play with but not too competitive.

I say save the points and take Rhinos, which means you can Combat squad or not, instead of being obligated to do so

That's 120 extra points...
Now take that 120 extra points and use it to change the Termies to regular termies and add 4 assault cannons or cyclone missile launchers.

Regular Termies are much more effective without a vehicle cause they can shoot when they deep strike, shoot when stuff gets out of assault range, shoot into a horde before assaulting it....shoot, shoot, shoot!
At least that's my experience...

Of course now you're a little light on the anti-tank with those three lascannons gone, but they weren't going to live long anyway, that's a tough one

So where should you get some AT from??

Good Luck!!

Here are some of the things you guys have said and my response.

1. "one thing to know... tac squads aren't powerful enough, so don't take them as troops for a truly competitive army...
this leaves you with a few options: Grey Knights, Scouts, and Bikes."

Your right there not the best but Grey Knights require you to still take 2 of your own troops. Scouts are only good for holding backfield objectives. Yes bikes are the best choice but it also requires a min of 135pts to make them troops.

2. "your second list is OK, but that one raider is your only vehicle... and will die REALLY FREAKING FAST. so thats a bad idea. the shrike list also strikes me as a fairly poor list... the assault terminators, against the right type of army, would get their asses spanked. orks would walk all over them."

The landraider being my only armor in the list isn't a big deal If I go first it goes 12 and pops smoke or it outflanks charges something if there not bunched up in the middle or goes 12 and pops smoke, it's only there to get the terminators into the heat of things. I fail to see how the terminators would get spanked by orks, considering most ork players don't run pure foot sloging list they run mek or Nob deathstars I'm not scarred of 20 or 12 man ork units and TH/SS termi's would rape a nob squad.


Rdlb I agree with your points about the razorbacks. Only thing I disagree with you on is running normal terminators. My army has the fleet rule so not taking full advantage of that by taking terminators seems a little off for me especially with how good the new SS are.

I've just seen people get their landraider popped and then their superexpensive assault termies are just trying to get to something, anything, to assault it.

So they're not able to be put to their best use, they're forced to just assault what they can.

But Shrike's squad will infiltrate so I guess you're right, you'll need those SS to fend off the fact that everything will be shooting at you...

On the bright side if you still go with Rhinos you'll have 120 points to spend on three Powerfists for the Tacs, or two Multimelta Landspeeders, or Plasma Cannon Dread, or
a scout squad with cloaks and teleport homer for the second termie squad, or some attack bikes, or...

Well you get the idea, you can get a lot of complimentary stuff with 120 points!!!

I really think the scouts with Cloaks and Teleport Homer sounds good. He sets up, they infiltrate, they can't afford to shoot the scouts because of Shrike and the mess coming down right on top of them, so your other fleeting termie death squad will show up right on target too.

105 points will get you 5 scouts with cloaks, teleport homer, and sniper rifles

Am I the only person her that has noticed you can't take full 10 tac squads in Razorbacks. 6 max sorry that enough for a combat squad and a sarg or special character. Razors do well with devestator squads. A razor with TLLC and squad of devies are great for either vehicle hunting or HQ hunting, depending on how you equip the squad.

DarkLance wrote:Am I the only person her that has noticed you can't take full 10 tac squads in Razorbacks. 6 max sorry that enough for a combat squad and a sarg or special character. Razors do well with devestator squads. A razor with TLLC and squad of devies are great for either vehicle hunting or HQ hunting, depending on how you equip the squad.

Reread your Codex. A tactical squad may purchase a Razorback regardless of squad size. A full squad will not be able to mount up until reduced to 6 men or they combat squad down, however.

What do you think of the idea of having kinda mix between the two somethinng like this

Shrike
Captain-Bike-Artificier-StormShield-RelicBlade 195pts

10 Terminators TH/SS 400pts

Full bike squad-2xMeltaGun-MultiMelta-PowerFist-CombiFlamer 320pts
Full bike squad-2xMeltaGun-MultiMelta-PowerFist-CombiFlamer 320pts
Full bike squad-2xMeltaGun-MultiMelta-PowerFist-CombiFlamer 320pts

I could drop one of the bike squads and tone down the captain and take 2 big assault marine squads to take advantage of fleet.

Well, I'd replace Shrike with 5 Termies with cyclone
dropping some Assault Termies.
The Termies can run anyway.

If youre going to build an over the top shrike army, you might as well make a better one than that. Here's my suggestion

shrike 195

5 th/ss terminators 200
5 th/ss terminators 200
5 th/ss terminators 200

5 scouts missle launcher camo cloaks melta bombs 105
5 scouts missle launcher camo cloaks 100

landraider redeemer multimelta 250
landraider redeemer multimelta 250
landraider redeemer multimelta 250

That comes in at 1750. Thats 15 fleeting terminators out of 3 land raiders. Scary.