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2009/12/07 22:19:17
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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So if you take a squadron of space wolf landspeeders, can only 1 be upgraded to a typhoon?
The wording isn't very clear and could mean either 1 can be upgraded or any can be upgraded to a typhoon.
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My 40k Theory Blog
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2009/12/08 13:11:43
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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Anyone know the answer to this?
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My 40k Theory Blog
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2009/12/08 14:49:55
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Huge Bone Giant
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It seems rather clearly to be singular. One of a sqaudron can be upgraded. See the other upgrade types for examples of "any" being able to be upgraded.
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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2009/12/08 15:04:26
Subject: Re:Space wolf landspeeder
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Steadfast Grey Hunter
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RAW you can take as many Typhoons as you want. Everywhere else in the codex the word one is used when the number is limited. However, I wouldn't get real attached to using multiples because it will probably be changed in the FAQ, if one ever comes out.
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Playing Space Marine demo while GF was scrapbooking:
Me: I can turn it down, if the screams of dying orks are annoying you.
Her: That's ok, I love hearing the screams of dying orks.
My armies (W-D-L):
 2,000 (about 1,200 painted and now I'm feeling the call of Russ) 3-4-3
 2,000 (about 1,000 painted, WiP)  0-1 |
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2009/12/08 15:13:34
Subject: Re:Space wolf landspeeder
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Huge Bone Giant
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DruidODurham wrote:RAW you can take as many Typhoons as you want. Everywhere else in the codex the word one is used when the number is limited.
You mean like how it lists that varient as an upgrade to "a" speeder and the other varients can be made from "any" speeder?
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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2009/12/08 15:14:22
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
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The 1st two options say "Any"
The Typhoon says "A"
So only one may take it.
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2009/12/08 15:19:24
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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Actually it says "any landspeeder can take these options, alternatively a Landspeeder (could mean any, since its a continuation of the above rule) can take a typhoon ML...
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My 40k Theory Blog
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2009/12/08 15:20:27
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Huge Bone Giant
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I am looking at the summary.
Using that as well, it seems to be that one (per squadron) can be upgraded as such.
Editing to add:
If it had meant to be any, I really think it would have said as much, given that the other upgrades are listed that way.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/08 15:21:13
"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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2009/12/08 15:26:30
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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The thing is, "A" doesn't really force singularity.
A land speeder can be upgrade to a typhoon. It doesn't say 1 per squad or 1 per army.
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My 40k Theory Blog
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2009/12/08 15:32:47
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Huge Bone Giant
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So if you upgrade 2 of them, are you upgrading "a" speeder?
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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2009/12/08 15:35:12
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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Yes, your upgrading "a" speeder twice.
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My 40k Theory Blog
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2009/12/08 15:39:55
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Huge Bone Giant
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No... you are upgrading 2 speeders.
Upgrading a speeder twice would be into a tornado and then changing its weapons.
Actually even so, that is one upgrade. NM.
Still.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/08 15:41:18
"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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2009/12/08 15:45:02
Subject: Re:Space wolf landspeeder
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Deranged Necron Destroyer
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Personally, I read the alternatively to suggest that a Landspeeder can't be upgraded to both a Typhoon and a Tornado.
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2009/12/08 15:46:49
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Huge Bone Giant
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I agree with Irdiumstern as well -- however I do not see that as allowing it to upgrade multiples.
"Alternatively any speeder" would have covered that.
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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2009/12/08 16:11:00
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Timmah wrote:Yes, your upgrading "a" speeder twice.
But the rules do not give permission to do it twice. They only say you can upgrade a speeder. Thats it.
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2009/12/08 16:37:08
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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But see the wording in context is:
Any landspeeder can be upgraded with...alternatively a landspeeder can be upgraded to.
A landspeeder is referring to the any landspeeder from above. Using "any" twice would be redundant and unnecessary.
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My 40k Theory Blog
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2009/12/08 16:41:06
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Huge Bone Giant
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Still, you cannot upgrade two and call it "a" landspeeder that was upgraded.
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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2009/12/08 16:41:38
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
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It also says that I can take a Drop Pod, Rhino, or a Razorback.
By your interpritation I can tike more than one.
"a" denotes a Single entry by there usage of it in the rest of the book.
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2009/12/08 16:54:39
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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Anpu42 wrote:It also says that I can take a Drop Pod, Rhino, or a Razorback.
By your interpritation I can tike more than one.
"a" denotes a Single entry by there usage of it in the rest of the book.
Actually the comma's and "or" make it so that you have to choose one.
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My 40k Theory Blog
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2009/12/08 17:21:30
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Huge Bone Giant
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I read it as one per squad.
Enjoy.
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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2009/12/08 17:58:30
Subject: Re:Space wolf landspeeder
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Steadfast Grey Hunter
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The way it's written now, you could upgrade a land speeder to a Typhoon...and then upgrade a land speeder to a Typhoon. Everywhere else in the Codex unit upgrades say that ONE model can take something. Of course, we all know that GW meant just one, but grammatically speaking you can take more than one.
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Playing Space Marine demo while GF was scrapbooking:
Me: I can turn it down, if the screams of dying orks are annoying you.
Her: That's ok, I love hearing the screams of dying orks.
My armies (W-D-L):
2,000 (about 1,200 painted and now I'm feeling the call of Russ) 3-4-3
2,000 (about 1,000 painted, WiP) 0-1 |
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2009/12/08 18:20:35
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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I agree with Kirsanth, that the wording (in context) appears to restrict SW tornadoes to 1 per squad.
I would not be surprised if that WASN'T the intent, given how terrible the editing is in that dex, but the wording seems reasonably clear to me.
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
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The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
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Maelstrom's Edge! |
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2009/12/08 18:41:21
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
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All I can say is make your Three Typhoons and go to a local GW turnament and see what happens.
Sometimes RAW are RAI
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2009/12/08 18:44:52
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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Doesn't it seem odd to anyone else that GW would let you take any amount in each squad for SM but then switch it for SW's?
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My 40k Theory Blog
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2009/12/08 18:46:13
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Huge Bone Giant
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Not really, no.
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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2009/12/08 18:55:55
Subject: Re:Space wolf landspeeder
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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"Seeming odd" is pretty par for the course with GW. Reading RAI is impossible on an issue like this it is without a statement one way or the other.
Another example of an odd entry is in the C:SM. The Ironclad comes complete with extra armor for free, but not the ironclad assault launchers. Interestingly enough, the IAL cost 15 points - exactly what the extra armor costs. Additionally, it is the last option in the entry, the spot every other SM vehicle has the extra armor option.
IMO the extra armor instead of IAL in basic wargear is an unerrated error. But then I'm trying to find RAI by patterns, and this could just be an anomaly.
I don't have the SW dex, but if it says "a land speeder" then that really just does mean a single one.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/08 18:56:16
Sangfroid Marines  5000 pts
Wych Cult  2000
Tau  2000 |
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2009/12/08 18:56:18
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
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SW Get 1 in 3
DA Get 1 in 5
BA Get 1 in 3
BT can get up to 3 in 3
SM can get up to 3 in 3
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2009/12/08 19:09:35
Subject: Re:Space wolf landspeeder
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Looking at it, 'alternatively' would seem to indicate either 'any' speeder make be upgraded to typhoon instead of tornado (or HF/MM), OR that instead of upgrading any speeder with the previous options, ONE in the squadron may be upgraded to typhoon, and the others must remain 'stock'.
So:
1. Any (and all) LS may take options A and B.
2. Any (and all) LS may take option C.
3. Instead of 1. or 2., a LS may take option D.
OR
1. Any (and all) LS may take options A and B.
2. Any (and all) LS may take option C.
3. In lieu of using 1. or 2. a single LS may take option D.
As to how I think it was intended to read, I believe 1. and 2. are to be used as written and 3. is one LS per unit.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/12/08 19:55:01
Subject: Space wolf landspeeder
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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Thanks Lordhat for outlining the problem better. Thanks to the wonderful english language it can really be read either way and to support both sides.
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My 40k Theory Blog
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2009/12/08 20:02:05
Subject: Re:Space wolf landspeeder
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
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Yes, grammatically it's unclear. Ask your opponent before the game, is my advice.
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