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Basically i like the idea of fielding a Blood Axes army, since painting camo patterns and doing some conversions to reflect their taste for imperial things sounds fun.
In terms of gameplay, i like the idea of having units of Boyz riding into the fray in Trukks and utilizing Snikrot and a Kommando squad to flank or cause general mayhem.
I'm not fond of running many vehicles other than transport, but i may use the three AoBR deffkoptas to hit and run while i bring my Trukks in.

Heres a VERY basic idea, which isn't finished on numbers either.

HQ - Ghazghkull Thraka
- (Suggestions for the other HQ choice?)

Elites - 10 Kommandos w/ Boss Snikrot
(Maybe 2 Burnas or 1 Burna and 1 Big Shoota?)

Troops - 11 Slugga Boyz + Nob w/ Power Klaw and Bosspole
(1 Boy with a Big Shoota + Designated Transport Trukk)

- [Another Squad identical to above]

- 10 'Ard Boyz + 1 Nob w/ Power Klaw and Bosspole
(No transport, will it be necessary with their armour save?)

- (Not sure what to add here, maybe a unit of nobs?)

Fast Attack - 3 Deffkoptas w/ Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha
(Not sure about using these really, but since AoBR had them, might as well use them for now?)

I feel like this is a little low on boyz, and i'm more keen on getting in the enemy's face and taking advantage of flanking for close combat.
ANY suggestions are welcome, as i'm sorta teaching myself here. Don't be afraid to rubbish alot of my list and post your opinion, but take mine into consideration if you can.
Not even sure if i've stuck to the Force Organization Chart with this, let me know if i'm breaking any rules here.

you're going to want 4 troop choices in 1500points...Either by footslogging 30 man squads or all in trukks/battlewagons

Ghaz is just too expensive for this point total IMO. Most people find fielding him this low hurts your army more than it helps. For the same price you can run a decked out warboss and a kff big mek.

Dump the big shootas in your squads. You need 5's to hit and then mostly 3's...Odds are you aren't going to even wound anything.

Ard Boyz are an "average" squad. They can do some nice close combat but if they face power weapons, well what a waste of 4pts per model. You don't need them, as you should still be winning combat anyways on a charge. If you do run them, get them in a battlewagon.

Kommandos are cool, need to max the squad out though. Again they are a squad that at this point level is too expensive. If they could capture objectives they'd be worth every point. But 250pts on 14 boyz (and yes they are just boyz), is a bit too steep. At 1850+ I'd say is a good starting team build to start using them. You can run a full 30 man squad w/ nob for the same price.

Deffkoptas are fun, just don't expect anything out of them. Run them by themselves, not in a squad. It gives you more targets to shoot at, and if you lose just 1 when in a 3 man squad, you'll need to roll a 6 or less to not go flying off the board. Say bye bye to 135pts while your opponent laughs.


So overall look at running 4 squads of boyz or 3 squads and a nob troop squad either at full size or in trukks/battlewagons at max capacity for the vehicle. The Nobz at 6 w/ a paintboy with a couple power klaws and different war gear will wreck house.

You don't have a "theme" with your list. You don't have a mech army. It's not a tide army at all, and it's not a fast attack list either. Figure out which style you would have fun with and build it completely in that theme. Proxy models and play a few games w/ each style if you need to see what you like and dislike.

Answer to the above most, to the benefit of the list.

1. Agreed, 4 should be your aim.

2. Not totally, only run him if you are going 4 squads of (slugga) boyz in trukks, for around 27" charge range, or lots of footslogging goodness (Shoota or Slugga)

3. Big shootas ONLY on shoota squads, take them every time on the shoota squads.

4. Generally, I only run 'ard boyz if they are in a mob of 20+, and footslogging. Or in a b-wagon, as the above poster said. No trukks for 'ard boyz.

5. Not too expensive, stop saying that LOL. Max squad for kommandos, take as many burnas as you can, take snikrot or nob w/ PK (I prefer snikrot) 1000 point level is usually where you can start taking these boyz. Aswell, KOMMANDO'S CAN ONLY BE IN A MAX MOB OF 15. Don't comment on things you don't know about.

6. Exactly what I was going to say, and exactly how I run them. Only TL rokkits

7. Yes.

8. You have to choose with orks, no mixing and matching styles. Its either mek, speed, footslogging, or elite.

Karon....

Ghaz = Too expensive for a highly effective 1500 army....75%+ would agree I would lean towards. You can start thinking about him but you really need to build your army around your HQ instead of your HQ around the army which really limits what you can run and be effective.

Kommandos = 14 + snikrot (15 total). And yes they are basically just boyz that come on any board edge w/ Snikrot. Read your codex again... And yes they are too expensive at 1500pts for a 1 shot wonder. They come on, kill a tank or squad and die. Are they going to get their points back? nope. Will they get 1/2 their points back? Maybe. So too expensive? Yes at this point lvl and especially with Ghaz, no go!

Would you really take 1/3 of your army for 14 BOYZ, Snikrot, and Ghaz? Please let me face you at some random tourney!

Appreciate the input fellas, i'll take what you've said and see what i can do.

But for now, opinions on this different variation? I'm really keen on making a couple looted leman russ models for Looted Wagons, but not sure on their usefulness with a boomgun. Also, as a transport they would give slightly higher defence compared to a trukk, but not all the options.. Its more a fluff-fun army i guess, but im hoping it still has its merits.

HQ: Warlord Ghazghkull Thraka (Mostly for his brute force and prophet of the waaagh!)
Big Mek with KFF and 'eavy armour

Elite: 14 Kommandos, 2 with Burnas + Snikrot

Troops: 30 Boyz (1 Nob with PK, 'eavy armour and bosspole)
30 Boyz (1 Nob with PK, 'eavy armour and bosspole)
9 Nobz (Thraka with this unit) 1 with PK and Waaagh! Banner

Heavy Support: 2x Looted Wagons with Boomguns and 2 Big Shootas each + Reinforced Ram

Total comes to 1480pts i believe.

Should probably mention the kommandos and snikrot are sort of the focal point for my decision on these armies, i can see they are quite expensive, and for a more serious army list probably a waste. That said, got any suggestions for their replacement? I'm assuming you'd replace ghaz for a normal warboss?

Ghazzy and kommando's are very viable in a speed or mech list. With ghazzy you are near to certainty of getting into CC on turn 2, which if you properly hold your kommando's in reserve, turn 2 will be the earliest they will become a target. Thus when your crash into your enemies front with a pile of boyz, AND hitting their flank/rear with kommando's you will prevent your opponent from having much if anything left to charge with in their turn. Also, yes ghazzy is pricey but aside from his prophet rule he has ONE major thing over all other warbosses: eternal warrior. Being as IC's can be singled out in CC, all it takes is a dread to manage to get near your boss and touch him and he goes away.

I definately see what you're saying, that was the point of using snikrot with ghaz in the first place, a good waaagh assault with snikrot having fun at a flank.

I had a list using smaller boyz squads with their dedicated trukks for transport, but i felt points that could be used for troops were being wasted. Is it a bad idea to just footslog it with the boyz with snikrot staying in reserve for a round or two?

This is sort of moving into tactics a little but lists and tactics go hand-in-hand.

If anyone has seen/used a blood axes clan army list that worked well and fit their fluff, i'd love to hear about it.

Can't say I've really ever seen anyone commit to Blood Axes...

-If you wanna use Snikrot you should have your boyz in trukks or BWs, probably trukks. Snikrot is definitely a one-shot wonder if he's all alone in your opponents ranks while your boyz are still a turn or two away. Getting Snikrot to hit at the same time as the rest of your force boosts his survivability as your opponent will have more to deal with.

-It seemed to me that you were a little light on 'stuff'. You've got a lotta cool units, but you need that backbone of boyz to really get a good army going. Like I said before, change those two 30 man squads into 2 trukk boy sqauds.

-Tone down the Nobz, yeah they rock face, but you don't need such a large squad at these points. Shave 2 or 3 off of that squad, give the rest a trukk and with the leftover points get another trukk boy squad.

-Put buzzsaws on your deffkoptas. They can turbo boost 24" with their scout move, and if you get first turn you're pretty much guaranteed a first turn assault on their vehicles, which you auto-hit because they haven't moved yet. If you don't get first turn then they have a 4+ cover save for a T5 unit that will distract fire from your vulnerable trukks.

Thats what I say, looks like a fun army, though not exactly competitive in a serious sense. But who cares?

I like your thinking, you've sorta given me more reason to use the deffkoptas, since really i was vague on their effectiveness before the waaagh is called with the boys. I'll work up a new list but i'm concerned about points. I'll scrap the looted wagons for now, probably have fun converting them later and use them for an apoc army.

Any other suggestions are welcome.

Also: I love painting camo and the possibility of converting with imperial bitz, so blood axes was a no-brainer for me.

Sorry, I highly disagree with the usefulness of Ghaz in a Kult of Speed list. There's a reason why he's a Goff - he should be taken in footslogging Mobs lists. KoS armies don't use Waaagh! as frequently as Footslogging lists do, so the whole reason of taking Ghaz is wasted.

A better HQ choice here - in fact, the only HQ choices you should be taking in any Trukk mobz list, are 2 Big meks w/ KFFs. Mount them in 2 Trukks and then bunch all the Trukks within 6" of the KFF Trukk to have them all get the KFF save when advancing. I cannot tell you how invaluable even the 1 KFF Mek I run in my KoS list has been in extending the life of my Trukks under even the most withering enemy fire for at least 1 turn, usually 2 or more.

Kommandoz are fun and fluffy for Blood Axes but can sometimes be useless. Not always, but sometimes. If you take a Mob, it should be at least 10-strong, always take 2 of the same special weapons, and should always use Snikrot (A KomNob w/ PK & Bosspole can be handy, but isn't as decisive as Snikrot's Infiltrate ability).

'Ard Trukk Boyz can be good as they can usually ward off enemy attacks thanks to the Boyz low Ini , but don't waste them against power weapon-wielding enemies (Howling banshees, for example).

Trukk Nobs would be good in Troops, if you take 1 KFF Mek and a Warboss. Make sure to arm them all differently and take a Painboy so you benefit from FNP. Trukk MegaNobs are also very good (if you take a MegArmored Warboss w/ Bosspole). I field one unit of 3 MANz, 2 MANz w/ KombiSkorchas, and my MABoss in a Trukk and it terrifies nearly everyone who sees it.

DKs are good. Make sure you never waste pts taking Buzzsaws or Bomms on them though. DKs are too fragile for CC and, for 25pts, Buzzsaws are only Str 7/6 weapons.

Looted Wagons with Boomguns simply aren't worth it. I learned this lesson the hard way after building a very nice one and then only ever using it once. Even the most basic Boomwagon will cost you upwards of 100pts and all you're getting is a 36" Str8, AP3 Ordanance weapon that you might not even be able to fire if "Don't Press Dat!" occurs. For that many pts, you could be taking a full unit of Kannonz with Ammo Runts (think 3 of Boomgun shots with smaller blasts but re-rolling misses) or between 8-10 Lootas (giving you anywhere from 10 to 30 Str 7 AP3 shots in a turn!)

OK, ghazzy with a KFF mech is a delicious combination. T1 hide behind BW's if you use them in conjunction with trukks, as I do. If not then use their 19" move to get closer to the enemy strategically (unless they stacked their deployment line, in which case you can T1 assault). Then on T2 you move up 19", disembark 2", WAAAGH! Auto 6" thanks to ghazzy, then charge 6". That's 33" total in ONE turn. Now in addition to the auto 6" waaagh! you also get an army that won't run away for two CC's, and an IC that has 7 s10 attacks on the charge, a 2++ for the next two CC's, and can tango with s10 without fear thanks to EW. Not to mention he is WS 6, very handy for krumpin any kind of elite units with ws5. He still hits on 3's but they still need 4's on him, that can make a world of difference. If your kommando's hit on T2 you will MULCH your opponent, especially if you used the previously mentioned deffkopta's to pop transports before you arrive to chew on the candy that falls out out of those ceramite pinata's! Looted wagons though are a waste due to low armor, high cost (with boomgun), and that terrible don't press dat rule. My suggestion if you want that bloodaxe feel... Buy chimera's and rhino's and rip the tops off and orky them up to be your trukks, maybe even some bigger imp tanks for BW's. Pain them camo with red in it for RPJ, use Kommando's, and maybe make a squad of burna's all with extra flamers from marine kits. Give it the feel that they got all their gear trading, bribing, and robbing various imperial forces. Hope this helps!

Ghaz should always be taken in a transport simply beasue it triples his possible movement. He is in mega armour so he only moves d6, if he runs and you average the rolls he moves 7", so not quite triple but close, also if you roll poorly then a huge portion of your army is spending it's game shlepping the board, tried it doesn't work. NO looted wagons, too fragile to filed such a big point gun. Also if your fileding two full units of boys slap a Big Mek in there.

ancientsociety wrote:
DKs are good. Make sure you never waste pts taking Buzzsaws or Bomms on them though. DKs are too fragile for CC and, for 25pts, Buzzsaws are only Str 7/6 weapons.

You are thinking about buzzsaws wrong. Buzzsaws are for assaulting rear armor. They are important for following up a failed round of shooting with an assault on a vehicle and not really for attacking things that fight back. Either way the enemy is probably going to shoot you down next round. It's cheaper to get a chance to assault that turn then to buy another rokkit shooting kopta. I'd say at least one buzzsaw per kopta squad is a good idea if you want a good chance at earning your points back. My optimal configuration is 2 TL rokkit koptas with a buzzsaw on one of them.

Big bombs aren't that great IMO if you are using your koptas for anti armor.

Yes looted wagons suck. If you are modeling looted imperial stuff then just proxy it as trucks and battlewagons.

You are thinking about buzzsaws wrong. Buzzsaws are for assaulting rear armor. They are important for following up a failed round of shooting with an assault on a vehicle and not really for attacking things that fight back. Either way the enemy is probably going to shoot you down next round. It's cheaper to get a chance to assault that turn then to buy another rokkit shooting kopta. I'd say at least one buzzsaw per kopta squad is a good idea if you want a good chance at earning your points back. My optimal configuration is 2 TL rokkit koptas with a buzzsaw on one of them.

No actually, I'm not. I understand what you're talking about - the whole "1st turn, TBing DKs into Anti-Armor Assault" tactic. And it's a good tactic...in theory.

I've tried this several times over the past year and it's worked a grand total of once. And, even when it does work, your DKs are then an easy target during your opponent's turn - that's a good 70pts per DK wasted before Turn 2. In a Kill Point game, that's an easy one for your enemy.

I just personally think there are a LOT better, more survivable options for Anti-armor in the ork 'dex. But, hey...YMMV

The big problem with anti armor for orks lies in AV 14 that doesn't move towards you, like some Impguard tanks this is where a deffkopta with buzzsaw can shine on a T1 shoot and charge.

Alright mates, let me respond, god this thread progressed fast.

Ghazzy SHOULD go in a b-wagon, with some meganobs or nobs, either way, they should only disembark when assault is certain (obvious)

He is the king of either footslogging armies and trukk armies, god I need Dashofpepper to get in here and support me on this one.

If they are in trukks, they have a POTENTIAL 30" CHARGE range. 18" flat out on the trukks, 6" fleet movement and 6" charge if I am getting that right. Thats huge, and can and IS very effective.

In footslogging, its still viable, with 100+ boyz slogging, on turn 2 or 3, just pop that WAAAGH! from ghaz and boom, 18" charge range.

He is expensive, yeah, but he can solo a 'fex, avatar, prince, bloodthirster, etc w/ eternal warrior, 7 attacks on the charge @ S10 (or is it 11 because of F.C.?) That MC is dead, and with 4 wounds, he will be fine, especially w/ some meganobs with him, or regular nobs.

On the subject of Deffkoptas, I take them in 3 units of 1, with TL rokkits and a buzzsaw, FIRST TURN, turbo boost 24" on scout move, pew pew w/ rokkits, assault, some stuff goings to be dead, and some stuff is going to be tied up. With two wounds each, it is a HUGE nuisance to take care of.

Don't plan your army on a game-mode you'll play 1/3 of the time. If you keep the 'koptas in assault w/ a HW team, devestator squad, they won't die, and if you opponent is going to really focus 3 of their units fire on them, go ahead, you just left most of my army alone, free to advance.

Big bomms suck, honestly, unless its a footslogging ork army, or footslogging IG.

Buzzsaws @ s7 on the charge (which they will get if you got first turn) will destroy pretty much anything under a leman russ and land raider. They're worth it, I thought the same thing awhile ago when I wasn't taking REAR ARMOR into account.

On the subject of ghaz and a kff mek, see Aztralwolfs post.

Looted Wagons are nice if you can get them within 36" relatively safely, they are no more armored than a rhino, but have a 36" range battlecannon on them.

hrvatskan wrote:
I had a list using smaller boyz squads with their dedicated trukks for transport, but i felt points that could be used for troops were being wasted. Is it a bad idea to just footslog it with the boyz with snikrot staying in reserve for a round or two?

Well my logic on Orks has become as follows: BW's and Trukks may use up points that could be spent on more boyz, but how many will get stuck in after you march all the way up the board? Probably about as many as you can fit into BW's and Trukks. So why not just get stuck in as fast as possible so you have a better chance of wiping your opponent out?
As far as Snikrot's boyz coming in, you have to make your reserves roll each turn, why not have an army that can be in CC easily on turn two, so that way as soon as snikrot does come in he has back up, or if he comes in after turn two he IS the back up.
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Honestly as far as Ghazzy goes, I truly have a hard time thinking of a better IC in a quality to points ratio. He gives you SOOOO much for what you pay. An amazing effect that is army wide, along with being able to go toe to toe with pretty much ANYTHING he is in range of charging and coming out on top 95% of the time on the subsequent WAAAAGH! CC's, and even after his 2++ wears off he can still dance with just about any unit. I would be willing to take the plunge of saying he is the best IC currently in this edition. Take him, if you have to use the world's biggest shoe horn to fit him in, take him.
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As far as theme goes what I forgot to say earlier is that you can always find a way to make a theme fit a powerful list, it's Orks man! I love blood axe's myself, my favorite clan hands down. But I am building up my army under the idea that it is Ghazzy's WAAAAGH! therefore my units are being diversely painted up. Kommando's as Blood Axe's, Boyz w/ Ghazzy are Goff's, Trukks/BW's as Evil Sunz, the various other Boyz squads as each different clans, my Burna Boyz as Deathskullz. Nobz with all their shiny gubbinz as Bad Moons. It is legal to do, has no REAL effect on the game, but makes it feel fluffier to me, and is FAR more fun to paint because you aren't doing the same darn thing over and over.

Aztralwolf speaks my mind on so many things.

There must be evil sorcery in the works!

So many different opinions is awesome, really getting a feel for what i'm going to field at the moment. I guess i'll post another list soon and make way for some more criticism before i finally field 1500 points.

I'm keen on keeping ghaz, already had an army list with a mek w/ KFF. Definately using snikrot and his kommandos, just seems a good compliment to the trukk rush and flank.

I'll see how i go with fitting in deffkoptas, but to be honest the local gamers here seem to lack much armor in their armies.

Any opinions of using deff dreads / killa cans with the trukks, deffkoptas and mek w/ KFF? I'm not too keen but a couple people have talked up their lists to me. I love getting opinions, the more arguments the better (pros and cons are always useful). Just keep it civil!

New list going up soon, watch this space.

Kanz or dreads can be a nice rear guard to tackle opponents that flank/deepstrike/drop pod behind you, but they are kinda slow.

New list, at 1449pts right now (Not sure which upgrades to fill it with).

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HQ: Warlord Ghazghkull Thraka

Troops:
12 Boyz, Nob w/ PK and Bosspole
Trukk w/ Boarding Plank and Armour Plates
12 Boyz, Nob w/ PK and Bosspole
Trukk w/ Boarding Plank and Armour Plates
10 Nobz, 2 PKs, Waaagh! Banner, Painboy (Thraka Here)

Elite: 14 Kommandos w/ 2 Burnas and Snikrot

Fast Attack:
Deffkopta w/ TL Rokkit-Launcha
Deffkopta w/ TL Rokkit-Launcha
Deffkopta w/ TL Rokkit-Launcha + Buzzsaw

Heavy Support: Battlewagon w/ Killkannon, Deffrolla, Armour Plates and 2 Big Shootas (Nobz + Thraka here)

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Let me know if i've broken anything specific relating to rules, codex is right in front of me but i'm pretty hopeless with armies beyond 500pts.

OK rather then tell you to switch around any actual units, I will simply give you my input on how to optimize what you have chosen. Get a KFF, this is the only actual unit addition. Drop boss poles from boyz squads, you won't need them with the ghazzy waaagh! Drop armor plates its just too expensive for your reward, get reinforced rams on athose trukks for rolling right over terrain and to tank shock. Drop down to 1x big shoota on the BW it is just ablative anyway. Diversify those nobz to abuse wound allocation, they are one hell of a points sink so you gotta make them count!