Rules Noob - few questions...

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**Slappywag**

Ok, so i bought an AoBR set and have been slowly reading through the rules and I'm stumped on a few (I've moved onto Full rules now).

With the Boyz they have a slugga and a choppa. I've read that the slugga counts as a close combat weapon in the assault phase and in the stats of an Ork Boy, it says they get 2 attacks in CC. Are these two attacks the choppa and slugga OR do I need to add another attack on top of this as it says 'in addition' - so 3 attacks? I'm just a little confused, I'm sure its just the 2 attacks but I want to make sure.

Also I noticed that it says Rapid fire weapons cant assault if they fire, so if the models with rapid fire weapons get assaulted do they still attack first if they have the higher WS?

And finally, am I right in thinking a boltgun shot against a normal Ork Boy only needs to wound them to kill them and remove from combat as its AP 5 and the Orks sv is 6+?

Sorry if these are incredible easy/obvious questions but I'm just confused with the wording and such and i haven't played in 10 years.

Slappy

**Lordhat**

Slappywag wrote:Ok, so i bought an AoBR set and have been slowly reading through the rules and I'm stumped on a few (I've moved onto Full rules now).

With the Boyz they have a slugga and a choppa. I've read that the slugga counts as a close combat weapon in the assault phase and in the stats of an Ork Boy, it says they get 2 attacks in CC.

If the slugga counts as a pistol you add an extra attack to your profile for having 2 close combat weapons (1 weapon [choppa] and one pistol[slugga]). If not you stick with what's listed on your profile for attacks.

Also I noticed that it says Rapid fire weapons cant assault if they fire, so if the models with rapid fire weapons get assaulted do they still attack first if they have the higher WS?

Units that contain a model that fired a rapid fire weapon (either once or twice) simply may not make assault moves. If they get assaulted they fight normally. Also, re-read the assault rules, models strike in order of initiative, not WS.

And finally, am I right in thinking a boltgun shot against a normal Ork Boy only needs to wound them to kill them and remove from combat as its AP 5 and the Orks sv is 6+?

Yes, this is correct, if the AP of the shooting attack is equal to or lower than the model's save characteristic, you may not make an armor save for that model. Note that Invulnerable and cover saves are not affected by the AP value of shooting attacks.

**Ridcully**

Be aware that there are ways for some Boyz to get a better armour save, as written in your codex on p100. Like Lordhat said, cover saves are unaffected by a weapon's AP.

**KingCracker**

Also dont forget that you get a further +1 attack on the charge, for assaulting. So on the charge Ork boyz get 4 attacks if you give them a choppa and slugga. Its almost annoying throwing that many dice rolls, but I laugh everytime.
And speaking of charging, Orks have furious charge, so they gain +1STR and +1I on the charge. They still would attack after most SM (unless the SM have powerfists and the like) but still your boyz will get alot of attacks.

**Slappywag**

Thanks guy's. Yeah i had already been rolling loadsa dice...now i gotta roll 4 for every one?! That's 80 dice rolls for 20 boyz...Im going to find an online dice roller...

Ok, so Furious Charge gives them an Initiative of a SM... that means the attacks are done simultaneously right? But then doesnt that mean that its possible for every model to be killed at the same time, like a double KO lol?!?!

Unfortunately i dont have the Ork Codex yet so I dont know their rules and such. Ill have to invest in one seeing as ill be collecting both

Thanks again

**Sanctjud**

No, even with FC, the normal boyz are still hitting after the SM hit.

KingCracker has it written in his post.

**nosferatu1001**

Slappywag wrote:Thanks guy's. Yeah i had already been rolling loadsa dice...now i gotta roll 4 for every one?! That's 80 dice rolls for 20 boyz...Im going to find an online dice roller...

Dont do that - as a Khornate player I can say that rolling an entire double handful of dice at once is an amazingly fun thing to do, dont miss out on it!

Slappywag wrote:Ok, so Furious Charge gives them an Initiative of a SM... that means the attacks are done simultaneously right? But then doesnt that mean that its possible for every model to be killed at the same time, like a double KO lol?!?!

2+1 /= 4, and yes it is possible to remove models at the same step - marines fighting marines do this all the time.

**Slappywag**

Sanctjud wrote:No, even with FC, the normal boyz are still hitting after the SM hit.

KingCracker has it written in his post.

Ah, I was looking at the Initiative of a Nob! Ha ha, what a jeb end! I thought Boyz were I3 not I2.

@Nosferatu

The thing about the dice is I only have 35 dice...I thought that would be more than enough lol!

Thanks again Gents. All is clear. I shall have a run through again.

Slappy

**Dracos**

My buddy plays orks and rolling those 80 or more dice at a time can be a bit of a headache. Normally we break it down into sets of 20 dice, and the player not making the rolls keeps count of hits etc.

For example, my buddy rolls 20 dice, separates successes and failures. I keep track of successes, and he rolls again. Repeat as many times as needed. This can be done pretty quickly, and without the mayhem of 80 dice rolling on the board at once.

**Karon**

Oh, this should make you laugh.

Regarding the dice rolling, I know a fellow at my gw (we have alot of strange people at our store XD) that plays horde orks.

He runs a few mobs of 30 sluggas footslogging, and he frequently plays against a gunline sm player.

Eventually, he got to his line, against a 5 unit of sm that was combat squaded w/ a plasma cannon.

He loaded each hand with as many dice as he had (probably like 40 or so) and just knocked down the 5 sm with them.

Both of them knew that the sm were dead, so it was a good laugh, I could just imagine it going like this.

"Sir, the orks are approaching, should we fall back?"

"Look to the sky and pray your soul is saved by the emperor"

*First guy sees the rockslide of dice incoming*

"FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"

**Thor665**

A funny image but that would horrify me if someone knocked over my figures with dice.

I'd probably cry.

**Dracos**

The way I read the story was that the models getting knocked down was a metaphor for being killed by the first batch of dice...

He didn't actually hit someone's models, did he?

I'd be a bit miffed if someone was hitting my models with dice. Thats a lot of hours of painting to chip away.

**Charlatan**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Slappywag wrote:Thanks guy's. Yeah i had already been rolling loadsa dice...now i gotta roll 4 for every one?! That's 80 dice rolls for 20 boyz...Im going to find an online dice roller...

2+1 /= 4, and yes it is possible to remove models at the same step - marines fighting marines do this all the time.

Boyz have a base attack of 2. +1 for two CC weapons and +1 for charging.

2+1+1 = 4

**Thor665**

You rather misquoted nosferatu there, Charlatan. You took his second answer and applied it to the first question he quoted.

He was discussing initiative - not number of attacks.

**KingCracker**

Yea when the dice numbers get high, I use and empty washer fluid jug with the top cut off. Then I roll everything Ive got from the bucket.
But we also do the "ok keep track of how many I score" because I too dont have enough dice if I run with a horde army.
Also YMMV but dont let someone talk you into letting them take their saves in small dice rolls (IE like 4 or 5 at a time) Ive found that specially with SM (terminators) they save WAY more frequently when allowed to roll off in small batches. We keep track of the hits/wounds and then my opponent has to roll them all at once. Im a stickler about that though lol
Also get a bloody codex man!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
AND GET TA PAINTIN!

**nosferatu1001**

The smaller the number of dice you roll, the better your "natural rolling" is - why i hate people making saves one at a time, never mind the time factor....

**Ridcully**

If natural rolling is a factor in standard games then you're playing the wrong people.

**berglin**

What is this 'natural rolling' you're talking about?

Why would there be a difference between rolling 80 dice at once (or 20000 dice for that matter) and rolling 1 die 80 times?

Isn't it one of the fundamentals in statistics that it doesn't matter if you roll them one by one or all at the same time? The probability of rolling all ones is the same regardless of what method you use.

Or is it simply that I'm approaching this from the scientific corner instead of the superstitious one?

**BlueDagger**

Natural Rolling is the process of being able to roll a die a specific way so that you can typically hit a number your trying to roll. It's also called practiced rolling.

That is the reason why if you play craps in a casino there is the bumped wall you have to toss the dice against. It prevents practiced rolling by knocking the dice in random directions.

**berglin**

Ah, you mean cheating. :-P

I've heard that most dice only bounce once so that if you have the 'right' side up when you throw it you could decide what the result would be.

Never bothered to look into it. Not competetive enough, i guess.

Nevermind then that GW dice tends to roll upwards to 30% ones due to rounded corners and indented pips.

YMMV.

**LiberatedObject**

Yeah, I've definitely heard of the GW dice curse. But generally where I play the rolling at once isn't so much for cheating but for time, since I doubt anybody there does practiced rolling, but occasionally might misquote a rule.

**lordrevege**

A boy with slugga and choppa get 3 attacks.
A model with rapid fire gun can still attack if they are assualted, even if they did fire the previous turn.
Also, you use initiative to determine who goes first, nw weopon skill

**Sanctjud**

Well...practiced rolling is available to everyone.
One can do it and not even know...

And people say there is no skill involved in 40K...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Weighted dice = cheating.

**KingCracker**

Yea going by statistics you should get the same end result rolling a 1 die 60 times as opposed to 60 die once. But in practice it doesnt always work that way. I play alot of MEQs and Necrons, so they have a really good save. Now when I first started Orks, the Necron player would roll like 5 or so dice over and over and score just a crap ton of saves. But After that kept happening, I said forget this your rolling ALL your saves at once, then I started getting alot more dead Necrons. So from then on we do it all in one shot.

And yes, its true about GW dice, those things are junk IMO. We use casino (gambling dice) for ours and dont normally have any complaints with those (other then the random bad rolls) But GW dice SUCK badly. They consistantly roll under 3s for some reason. Infact I have a set of big gun dice that we use only for leadership tests lol. And as a testament, Ive YET to fail a LD save with my Orks lol