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I'm fairly new to the hobby and wanted to make a fairly competitive Chaos Space Marines list. Shooting for effectiveness with the ability to take on mech. I do realize that there is a lack of PFists and the like. Constructive criticism welcome.

HQ

2x DP
-MoS, Wings, LoS

Elites

4 Termies and 1 Terminator Champ.
-4 combi meltas, Icon of Tzeentch

Troops

6 Plague Marines and 1 Champ.
-Rhino

6 Plague Marines and 1 Champ.
-Rhino

5 Plague Marines and 1 Champ.
-Rhino

Heavy

3 Obliterators

1 Vindicator
-DPossession, Havoc Launcher

Puts me in at 1497. Thanks in advance

Vindi out, Terms out, add a PM to the 3rd squad, Meltas on PMs, PFs on PMs, add 1 Oblit, if points allow, 3 Term 3 Combis.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:Vindi out, Terms out, add a PM to the 3rd squad, Meltas on PMs, PFs on PMs, add 1 Oblit, if points allow, 3 Term 3 Combis.

Stinks of Win.

Is this for friendly or competitive games?

Double Lash Prince: meh.

Termies: no need for champion nor the Icon of Tzeentch… another Termy with a special weapon of sorts would be preferable IMO.

Plague marines: totaling 7 man squads right?
They want double special weapons and if you go with champs get a fist (as suggested).

Oblits are good.
If you go with Vindi a pair is best, if you don’t go with a pair you’d rather go with more oblits then.

Sanctjud wrote:

Double Lash Prince: meh.

Some explaination would be good. Just saying meh will never help anyone write a better list and makes you look a bit lazy. If you have an opinion on something its much better to say to explain in detail and give reason. Then people will understand where you are comming from and think better of you (even if they disagree).

Onto the list:

Your terminators are a bit of a let down. They are very expensive and dont really do much. An IoT is very expensive for a squad of 5 and the champion upgrade is mostly useless. If you want to have a termicide squad its better to just go for 3 with combi-meltas but if you want them to do more you need to give them better equipment.

Plague marines should have two special weapons and a powerfist as standard. Part of their benefit is being able to take two specials in under 10 models and a powerfist makes their lowered I not quite as bad. Without anything they lack the ability to cause a threat. With two meltas and a powerfist not only are they hard to get rid of they pack a decent punch.

You dont need a havoc launcher on your vindicator. If you lose the main gun the tank becomes basically useless and a S5 template wont change this. Save the points and use it for tank shocking.

If you can find the points, take some more obliterators. They can cause a lot of damage and are the best heavy choice in the codex.

At the moment your list doesnt hit very hard. Its really only the obilts, vindicator and DPs that really cause a threat. Everything else is a bit lack luster. At the very least you need to have special weapons on your PM squads so they can do something other than be hard to kill.

Uh, I'm pretty sure he put the havoc launcher there so that would take the Weapon Destroyed result.

Could be wrong.

Attacker chooses weapon destroyed, so that doesn't work.

@karon your opponent chooses which weapon to destroy otherwise evveryone and their brother would put TLB on their tanks if it was the other way around.

Looks pretty good. I agree with just about everybody else has said. What I'd do though is drop the termis and the vindi. Get a fourth obliterator and split them into two squads of two. Use the points saved from the termis and vindi to get the two special weapons for the plague marine squads. Also consider, if you have enough points, getting a squad of berzerkers with a champ with powerfist and a rhino with extra armor. If you don't have enough points, drop the 6 man plague marine squad. believe me the awesome close combat abilities of the zerks will come in handy.

On another note, you've essentially built one of CSM's cheesiest lists, so you should do fine no matter what. Good luck though.

A Lash Prince/PM/Oblit list is not as auto-pilot as some believe it to be...

Win with the list without Lash. Then throw in lash as an extra tool....rather than something to rely on completely.

A few things, as I said I'm new to the hobby, that being said I'm competitive. Most especially competitive when it comes to the few friends that got me started into this hobby, or should I say habit? So yes I do want a competitive list. Eventually I'd like to take this list to local tourneys once I get the speed of the game down better, and obviously fine tune the list.

As far as Lash is concerned, am I going to use it every time? No, I'll learn to play with Warptime instead just to play test what I like better (it's the same point cost as Lash + MoS as I'm sure you know). And just mix and match psychic powers and the like. I do however appreciate that point as it will help me understand the strengths and weakness of a DP without having a crutch.

Yes I did take the Havoc Launcher to deal with the fact that if the Vindicator gets weapon destroyed it's useless, and/or if it gets immobilized then it's slightly worthless.

Lastly, the reason I had the IoT on the termy squad is originally I had them all with combi flamers to better deal with hordes. The way players and friends have dealt terminators in general is just throw dice at them til they can't get back up.

Special thanks to Regwon for offering explanation and not just "take this not that."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a quick rundown of what I got off of Army Builder based off of the suggested list

HQ

DP
-MoS, Wings, LoS

DP
-MoS, Wings, LoS

Elites

3 Terminators
- 3 combi weapons

Troops

6 Plague Marines and 1 Champ.
- 2 meltas and Champ w/ PFist, Rhino

6 Plague Marines and 1 Champ.
- 2 meltas and Champ w/ PFist, Rhino

6 Plague Marines and 1 Champ.
- 2 meltas and Champ w/ PFist, Rhino

(Or alternatively, 7 Berzerkers and 1 Champ
- Champ w/ PFist, Rhino)

Heavy

2 Obliterators

2 Obliterators

Puts me at 1483 (or alternatively 1470 w/o extra armor and the Berzerks).

The only thing that I feel is left out of either of these lists is an ability the deal with Hordes (read: Tyranids). Would or should I run the Terminators with combi flamers? Or will the Obliterators be able to lay down enough shots with Plasma Cannons? Thanks again in advance.

As for my Lash statement... sorry for not elaborating, my meh was more like: "meh, what else is new." There's not much to talk about them that hasn't been disussed here or any other Chaos oriented corner of the internet.

And the truth is, I am lazy...
___________-

As to the recent list.
3 troops in rhinos? Check.
2 Princes for the much beloved counter attack? Check.
Cover fire from the hvy support section? Check.

It looks good.

I've never been a fan of termicides, but they offer more melta goodness.
Though i will suggest to diversify the weapons of the third PM squad should you take it. Plasmas and Flamers are decent special weapons in rhinos.

As for the zerkers, they are decent counter assaulters and form a mini hammer and anvil, but the oppurtunity cost is that 3 squads of similar PM's are 'nine' times better.