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I had a game two weeks ago with a friend. He uses this IG List, as you can see below. I use a Footslogging ork list, but as i havent read the forum with attention and with a lack of minis, i didnt use the Grots shield and use a Big mek in the place of the warphead. I was beated till death. Im planning to use a Mek list, but i really dont know if its good enough. due to the lack of stores in my country i cant buy a lot of things in a hurry, i need to import them, But im still have 4 more deathkoptas and another 30 grots if it became necessary. Hope you can help me.

IG list:
HQ
comand + 3 advisor + 3 meltra + vox = 175

elite
7 storm trooper + 2 plasma + power weapon = 157
7 storm trooper + 2 plasma + power weapon = 157

troop
comand + al ahmein + vox + 3 flamer + chimera = 175
infantary squad + plasma + vox + chimera = 125
infantary squad + plasma + vox + chimera = 125

veteran + 3 plasma + lascanon + vox = 140
veteran + 3 plasma + lascanon + vox = 140
veteran + 3 plasma + lascanon + vox = 140

fast
3 banewolf = 390
vendetta = 130
vendeta = 130

i have this two Ork lists ....

orks

Ghazz
ammo runt

big mek
KFF

troops
18 slugga&choppa
(1) nob, power klaw,

12 slugga&choppa
(1) nob, power klaw,
1 trukk, red paint job, boarding plank ,Rram

12 slugga&choppa
(1) nob, power klaw,
1 trukk, red paint job, boarding plank ,Rram

15 burnaboyz (big mek)

heavy support
battlewagon big shoota, red paint job, boarding plank
(burnaboyz/big mek) Grb Klaw, rRam.
battlewagon big shoota, red paint job, boarding plank
(slugga&choppa/Ghazghkull Thraka)
def rolla. Grabing klaw


Kommandos 14
boss snikrot
burnas



and a FS List.
orks footslooging

Ghazz
ammo runt

warphead

troops:
ork boyz slugga e choppa
29 nob and pk


ork boyz slugga e choppa
29 nob and pk


ork boyz slugga e choppa
29 nob and pk


grotz 29
runtheards 2


Kommandos 14
boss snikrot
2x burnas

deffkoptas
1 TL rokkit
1 TL rokkit


ork boyz slugga e choppa
9 nob and pk


Can You help me with some ideas againts this list?

thanks in advance.

Ok looking at the guard list it isn't that great, lack of tranport and has one chimera and two vendettas.

Your list I would put in burnas, mass templates guard don't like - even in cover. Lootas will nail guard to pieces, and put the pain in their vehicles too.

With the guards lack of flamers and taking loads of meltas I would go a foot list. Ork vehicles don't stand up against melta anyway, and as he has no flamers you haven't a lot to fear.

mercer wrote:Ok looking at the guard list it isn't that great, lack of tranport and has one chimera and two vendettas.

Your list I would put in burnas, mass templates guard don't like - even in cover. Lootas will nail guard to pieces, and put the pain in their vehicles too.

With the guards lack of flamers and taking loads of meltas I would go a foot list. Ork vehicles don't stand up against melta anyway, and as he has no flamers you haven't a lot to fear.

thanks for the reply.

He has 3 chimeras, not only one.
troop
comand + al ahmein + vox + 3 flamer + chimera = 175
infantary squad + plasma + vox + chimera = 125
infantary squad + plasma + vox + chimera = 125


and this is my main problem...he has a hug shoot capacity with Line one, line 2, Fire, Fire.
When i was running in his direction his troops shoot 5 shots at least from each Chimera on my army. Only my kommandos and a troop with 6 models did it.

Add some Lootas to the foot list and you should be fine. I would drop the Warphead and the lone Deffkopta to help cover the lootas. Being able to rattle a vehicle or knock out one squad a turn is important.

From a tactical perspective, don't forget that you can charge multiple units with Snikrot and his boyz. If you can contact 3 squads, you will still beat them. Use them with an eye to taking out as many small squads as possible. It should impact his battle plan more than assassinating one important unit.

rvianarpg wrote:

mercer wrote:Ok looking at the guard list it isn't that great, lack of tranport and has one chimera and two vendettas.

Your list I would put in burnas, mass templates guard don't like - even in cover. Lootas will nail guard to pieces, and put the pain in their vehicles too.

With the guards lack of flamers and taking loads of meltas I would go a foot list. Ork vehicles don't stand up against melta anyway, and as he has no flamers you haven't a lot to fear.

thanks for the reply.

He has 3 chimeras, not only one.
troop
comand + al ahmein + vox + 3 flamer + chimera = 175
infantary squad + plasma + vox + chimera = 125
infantary squad + plasma + vox + chimera = 125


and this is my main problem...he has a hug shoot capacity with Line one, line 2, Fire, Fire.
When i was running in his direction his troops shoot 5 shots at least from each Chimera on my army. Only my kommandos and a troop with 6 models did it.

Ah I didn't notice that. Still not a huge amount.

I'd get some deffkopters with rokkits, use scout and turbo boost them first turn, if you get it. Then move 12" after and your rokkits still have a 24" range.

Use lootas to provide covering fire for them, but you can do damage to vehicles as well.

This is my ork list, it has two units of lootas for long range fire support which you need and deffkopters to get in early, which you need. Rest of the orks travel in battlewagons. The kopters are just suicide units, they get the job done and once they're gone they're gone.

Warboss power klaw, attack squig, combi skorcha, cybork body & eavy armour
Big Mek kustom force field & boss pole

10 x Lootas
10 x Lootas

12 x Boyz w/ trukk Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole
12 x Boyz w/ trukk Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole
20 x Boyz 2 x rokkits - Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole
20 x Boyz 2 x rokkits - Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole
7 x Nobz + Painboy w/ Battlewagon 1 x big choppa, 1 x kombi skorcha, 1 x twin-linked shoota 1 x power klaw, 1 x waaagh! banner, boss pole cybork bodies -
battlewagon w/ big shoota

1 x Deffcopters twin-linked rokkits & 1 x buzzsaw
1 x Deffkopter twin-linked rokkits
1 x Deffkopter twin-linked rokkits

1 x Battlewagon
1 x Battlewagon big shoota & deth rolla
1 x Battlewagon big shoota & deth rolla

rvianarpg wrote:IG list:
HQ
comand + 3 advisor + 3 meltra + vox = 175

elite
7 storm trooper + 2 plasma + power weapon = 157
7 storm trooper + 2 plasma + power weapon = 157

troop
comand + al ahmein + vox + 3 flamer + chimera = 175
infantary squad + plasma + vox + chimera = 125
infantary squad + plasma + vox + chimera = 125

veteran + 3 plasma + lascanon + vox = 140
veteran + 3 plasma + lascanon + vox = 140
veteran + 3 plasma + lascanon + vox = 140

fast
3 banewolf = 390
vendetta = 130
vendeta = 130

I am an IG player, so I can only tell you what is weak on your opponents list. You can choose how to take advantage of them.

This IG list has a lot of anti-Av14, and anti-MEQ. I would recommend a fast horde list. Use stuff like jump infantry, and bikes and jetbikes. Even infiltrators would probably work well. I would avoid expensive vehicles like Battlewagons, because between the Vendetta and Lascannon you simply are going to lose a lot of points. IIRC, deffcopters will be able to scout move and take out the banewolf. Stormboys might be a good idea to fly in and lock a few squads into CC, while the rest of your army slogs in. A big advantage would be higher cover saves. He has armor piercing, but a Mekboy with a KFF would give you 5+ saves he can't do anything about. Have the KFF move with your footsloggers, and use medium sized squads of bikers and stormboyz to lock up squads, like his elites... so they can't fire. His list will lose in CC, and he really has no way to stop a good sized horde. Just get some boyz in to assasult the banewolves before they get into template range. I recommend deffkopters with claws. The vets squads are useless, because once you get close they have to run... and then they can't fire. If you are afraid of FRFSRF, then go kill his command squads. Assault them with jump troops, and lock up as many squads as you can afford to. Nobs on bikes might work well, as they can close the gap, and can stay stuck in for a while. Ignore his vendetta, as they really have garbage weapons against a ork horde, footslogging list. Honestly the scariest thing on that list is the Chimera and Banewolfs, hit the Chimera quickly, and then go after the infantry inside... and hit the Banewolfs before they can get in range of you... and you will be fine.

Target priorities:
Chimera, any squad with a Powerklaw
Banewolves, deffkopters
Storm Troopers, any fast squad... probably going to be in Vendettas at first, which you can ignore until they drop the elites.
CCS, any fast squad
PCS, specifically Al'Rahem, squad that killed Chimera
Platoon Infantry, squads that killed Chimeras
Vets with Las, whatever you have left over.
Vendettas, ignore till end. They have Lascannon which shouldn't worry you.

Lascannons need a 5+ to even glance armour 14, I wouldn't worry about lascannons. Just make sure that side armour is covered

TBH your guard friend would be better taking hellhounds for the extra range. I wouldn't worry about banewolves too much as he needs to pop your armour first to use them, and lascannons aren't a major threat against armour 14.

Thanks....
i'll try to fit some stormboyz in my list...i really think they worthy their points.

mercer wrote:Lascannons need a 5+ to even glance armour 14, I wouldn't worry about lascannons. Just make sure that side armour is covered

TBH your guard friend would be better taking hellhounds for the extra range. I wouldn't worry about banewolves too much as he needs to pop your armour first to use them, and lascannons aren't a major threat against armour 14.

Couldn't disagree more. First off, Lascannons only cost 20 pts, Battlewagons are 90+, The Vets have BS4, and can be given BiD orders. The chance one of those Lascannons will miss is very low. Vets are likely to be aiming for front armor, but still have a good chance to get a pen hit. Against Av14 lascannon are really quite good. On top of this, he has vendettas. They are fast skimmers (can move 24") and have 3 lascannons. If you think that he isn't going to get a destroyed roll from 3 lascannon shots to your side or back armor... you are going to be very upset with your gamble. On top of this, there is a handful of melta in the list, so if you rush his gun line, he will melta your tanks. It is very obvious that is EXACTLY what his list is built for. He expects a mechanized MEQ list. Bringing light vehicles would be even worse, because then he could even shoot his plasma at you. His army lacts volume of firepower... not strength of firepower. Don't bring things that strength works well against (i.e. vehicles) bring things that you need volume to counter... i.e. horde. The reason the Chimeras are primary, is because they carry infantry inside, which you need to get to... and because of their HBs and MLs are actually good against horde armies. After that, the banewolves are templates, and fast. Which means they WILL get to range by the second turn even if they don't get the extra foot range that the hellhound has. And for a horde army, which you should be bringing, templates are the worst for you. If he doesn't change the list, the Chimera and Banewolves would be the greatest threat to a footslogging list.

My ork friend says bring shoota boys/lootas in the footsloggin list.

You need a 5+ to GLANCE armour 14, that isn't quite good at all.

Vendettas can move 24", but cannot fire if they move that distance. If they move 12" they can only fire one. They need to move 6" in order to fire all, not brilliant for something which can mobility. For orks this means 4+ to hit in combat, orks have a lot of attacks so there will be plenty of 4+.

Ork vehicles are open topped. So meltas get a +2 on the damage chart. Ork vehicles will crumble against melta, so I wouldn't even be worried about ork vehicles getting popped by them. Ruish up, let him pop a trukk or wagon and then assault them - simple.

Mech list with lootas fire support would beat that guard list.

Like deffkoptas, vendettas are scouts, and can therefor move 24" before the game begns!

Take advantage of this with your koptas. You need to get behind his anti-infantry tanks and fed some rokkits into his rear asap!

You should definately bring the horde, and not bother bringing anything with an armour value at all if you can help it (except maybe kans, they're cheap and keep fire away from the boyz).

Try to include the burnas in the footslogging list and see how that treats you. Don't lose one of the big mobs for them though, try and overwhelm him if you can.

You may want to try the KFF in the footslogger list as well, instead of ghaz. It'll free up some points and you can have the boyz march in a star formation, so that each has at least 1 boy within 6" of the mek (who should be in the rear most unit). That should provide some preotection against massed lasgun and heavy bolter fire.

Hope some of that helps! =)

If you have burnas in a foot slogging list they will not get into range quick enough to use the burnas. The flamer template is only 9" and then they move 6" + run, thats not good enough. Transport is needed for burnas.

If doing a foot list a kan wall would be best, 3 x 3 units of kans plenty of mobz of boyz in numbers of 30 and deffkopters to scout ahead of outflank. Lootas would be good for fire support.

Personaly, mech is better. You get into the fight sooner and with guard they have plenty of large templates - you don't want these dropping on your head if your mech. Plus bane wolfs cannot do anything to armour, though if you're foot slogging then orks are easy prey!

mercer wrote:
If doing a foot list a kan wall would be best, 3 x 3 units of kans plenty of mobz of boyz in numbers of 30 and deffkopters to scout ahead of outflank. Lootas would be good for fire support.

Personaly, mech is better. You get into the fight sooner and with guard they have plenty of large templates - you don't want these dropping on your head if your mech. Plus bane wolfs cannot do anything to armour, though if you're foot slogging then orks are easy prey!

The entire IG list outside of the banewolves is built around built around popping transports and light armor with plasma and melta.
Sure, you could build a great mechanized list and beat him, but I think you would be much better off laughing as he burns his smaller number of high strength shots on boyz. The banewolves aren't a huge threat, I'd be much more worried about hellhounds.

For once, I won't recommend a kan wall for footslogging... all that plasma would eat it alive.
Lootas and boyz

I have to agree with Gorka.
Deny him a valid use for all his heavy anti-tank weapons and watch him sweat as the tide approaches ever closer at an alarming rate (with some decent run rolls hopefully).

Trukks would be a complete waste of time and would accomplish nothing but feeding him free kill points. He'd just pop all your trukks with his anti-infantry weapons and then drop templates on your boys anyway... Best case scenario you get a turn of movement before they die (if you get to go first). It's a sad sight when trukks meet well armed guard. =(

The burnas will only work if you keep them to one side, and behind another mob (preferably a grot screen). They should suck up alot of fire, and if they don't, they'll wreck him when they get there. More boyz would be better, but ya' gotta' use what you got.

Grot screen and charge my fellow green-skinned friend.

complete waste of time and would accomplish nothing but feeding him free kill points. He'd just pop all your trukks with his anti-infantry weapons and then drop templates on your boys anyway...

Er, you only play kill points on third of the time, so why the worry? Use transports to get into the fight quicker and so anit infantry fire power i.w bane wolves cannot BBQ your orks. Battlewagons would be better anyway.

Er, you've just said about transports getting popped and then templates falling on yours boyz' heads, what do you think happens when you're on foot? My point is the transports keep the boyz protected in mobile metal and those large blast templates won't hit your boyz, without doing the transport over. Also you will get into close combat quicker instead of using run all the time and getting pounded by blast templates and fast moving bane wolves with ap3 flamers.

nob bikers f guardsmen in the a
i had a unit of 10 that muched through 2 infantry squads and 4 heavy weapons teams then blew up a russ
was fun times

Ghrazkull thraka
9 Nobs ( eavy armor, big choppas, 2pk, Waagh banner)
painboy
in a battlewagon w/ kannon, 4 rokkit launcher,
armor plates, red paint, reinforced ram

Wazdakka Gutsmek
8 nob bikers ( eavy armor, 2 pk, twl shootas, big chopas, waagh banner)
1 painboy biker

15 lootas

6 Burnas

3 Deffkoptas (1 buzzsaw, 2 big bombs, twl rokkit)

19 Ard boyz
1 ard boy nob
in a battlewagon w/ kannon, 4 rokkit launcher,
armor plates, red paint, reinforced ram

5 Stormboyz
Boss Zagstruck

looted wagon with boom gun, red pain job, rienforced ram and 2 rokkit launcha

kannon battery (3 kannons)

This list has never failed against any ig i have played.

Ghazkull and his nob protectors in a battlewagon as well as the ard boys in the battlewagon rush foreward 13" and bail out the front move another 6" toward nearest armor or troops for mass slaughter,Ghrazkull has 6 attacks on the charge and the nobs each have 4 attacks on the charge thats 42 attacks. After troops are deployed use the battle wagon to block the enemys path and fire all she's got. The deffkoptas outflank to hurt rear or pie plate artillary or armor, zagstruk and the storm boys deep strike near big or high priority armor and destroy, the kannons fire str 8 ap 3 shells at armor or str 5 ap 5 on troops, looted wagon fires str 8 ap 3 pie plate for armor and troops. wazdakka and the biker nobs are fireing twinlinked dakka guns str 5 ap 5 assault 3 so with 9 bikers thats 27 shots plus theu have twin linked shootas str 6 ap 3 assault 2, thats 18 more shots and wazdakka has a str 8 ap 3 dakka cannon assault 4 to boot. thats alot of troop killing tank shocking rounds. The 15 lootas put out from 15 to 45 7 str ap 3 rounds great for objective holding and the burnas are great foot sluggin units that people dont pay attention to until they are roasting a whole squad. hope this helped.

mercer wrote:

complete waste of time and would accomplish nothing but feeding him free kill points. He'd just pop all your trukks with his anti-infantry weapons and then drop templates on your boys anyway...

Er, you only play kill points on third of the time, so why the worry? Use transports to get into the fight quicker and so anit infantry fire power i.w bane wolves cannot BBQ your orks. Battlewagons would be better anyway.

Er, you've just said about transports getting popped and then templates falling on yours boyz' heads, what do you think happens when you're on foot? My point is the transports keep the boyz protected in mobile metal and those large blast templates won't hit your boyz, without doing the transport over. Also you will get into close combat quicker instead of using run all the time and getting pounded by blast templates and fast moving bane wolves with ap3 flamers.

You worry about kill points because you play kill point games, 1/3 of the time. It's the same reason why you worry about having troops to hold objectives. It's because you play objective maps 2/3 of the time. The idea is you write lists that can handle both killing and objectives, because the game types are random. Not sure you could call it a "good" list if you aren't gonna be prepared for 1/3 of your games.

Not to mention, it's not all about kill points, its about point costs. If you don't need to stock your list with trukks/wagons... that's all the more boys you have on the table. A trukk is 6+ boyz, and a wagon is worth 20+ boyz. For the cost of a trukk you can put enough boys on the field to completely soak all the lascannon he has. Even if he gets 100% of the hits/wounds (unless he stops moving his Vendetta to shoot at boyz). Oh noes, I lost 6 boyz OF 300!!! and I advanced 12".

Without any trukks/wagons, you do the same thing you would do on foot. You would use deffkoptas, bikers, or any other fast infantry to crash through the banewolves in the first turn, before it gets to your troops. The same thing you would want to do to any enemy armor. If your plan is to chase tanks with trukks and wagons until you are close enough to disembark... I am going to tell you there are definately better ways to do it... if you are bring a footslogging list, mech list... or anything inbetween.

The point is why worry about kill points when the odds are you will be playing objective games more than kill points.

Why would you shoot lascannons at boyz for? Obivously not going to do a lot...not a very good example, considering we was talking about large blast templates.

Your still missing the point that the transports need to be popped before getting to the orks, bane wolf cannot pop armour so is usless until the transport is wrecked.

I didn't say my plan was to chase tanks, no idea where you got that from? I have other ways of popping tanks, and its not getting up close with power klaws, which obivously you would want transports to get up close and personal.

mercer wrote:The point is why worry about kill points when the odds are you will be playing objective games more than kill points.

Why would you shoot lascannons at boyz for? Obivously not going to do a lot...not a very good example, considering we was talking about large blast templates.

Your still missing the point that the transports need to be popped before getting to the orks, bane wolf cannot pop armour so is usless until the transport is wrecked.

I didn't say my plan was to chase tanks, no idea where you got that from? I have other ways of popping tanks, and its not getting up close with power klaws, which obivously you would want transports to get up close and personal.

Already told you why you should worry about kill points.

We were given a list that the enemy has. This list has a ton of plasma, and a ton of lascannon. And since the enemy list also has NO large blast anything... I wonder, what are you talking about then? The idea is that if you take vehicles, you waste points on vehicles, where you could have 6 boys instead. When the list has so many lascannon, you could bring a truck, which will likely be destroyed (or immobilized, which for a transport is just as bad) in 3 or so shots from a lascannon. However, 6 boys will soak about 12-13 shots from a lascannon. That's a lot more effective. So why would the las shoot at boys? If you don't take ANY vehicles, the lascannon will have nothing else to shoot at, except boys. Why waste points on vehicles, when they are going to get blown up?

With the sheer number of las and plasma, if you brought trukks they would be gone by the first turn... leaving the banewolves to drive over the infantry inside in the same turn. No one is missing anything here, except maybe you. What you are missing is the fact with so many high strength weapons on the table, trukks won't last through the first turn. The only way you might get anything out of your trukks is IF you move first, which you can't guarantee. And since you would get just as far taking casualites with the extra boyz as you would with a blown up trukk by the end of turn 1 and less boyz the choice is obvious.

As for the chasing tanks, the point was simply that you propose a mech list to defeat a anti-mech army. That for you to take out this list with trukks would force you to be chasing the enemies tanks with yours the whole match, while he outguns you. If that isn't how you intended to fight, that is fine... but you should probably say that... since trukks aren't the answer, but maybe your other idea (that you didn't list) is.

And just to nip this in the bud. Wagons would do just as badly, and would cost the eqivalent of 20 boys... which is a HUGE difference... considering that thats the same as about 50 lascannon shots... which the enemy player wouldn't even be able to produce in a 6 turn game.

To explain further... by not taking any vehicles at all and writing the whole list with only cheap, barebones infantry... you basically make the lascannons and plasmaguns a HUGE waste of points on the part of the enemy commander. If you bring a few deffkoptas, you can easily wreck the banewolves (which are the only anti horde in the list). After that point, all you have to worry about is lasguns... which are the single worst weapons in the game, and become useless once you enter into CC. So if you have a few other fast units, like bikers or stormboyz, you can get into CC and lock up your opponenet right quick... making his whole list junk. A few small squads of grots or shootas, and you can cap whatever points you want on top of wiping out the enemy list.

Lt Lathrop wrote:
To explain further... by not taking any vehicles at all and writing the whole list with only cheap, barebones infantry... you basically make the lascannons and plasmaguns a HUGE waste of points on the part of the enemy commander. If you bring a few deffkoptas, you can easily wreck the banewolves (which are the only anti horde in the list). After that point, all you have to worry about is lasguns... which are the single worst weapons in the game, and become useless once you enter into CC. So if you have a few other fast units, like bikers or stormboyz, you can get into CC and lock up your opponenet right quick... making his whole list junk. A few small squads of grots or shootas, and you can cap whatever points you want on top of wiping out the enemy list.

This basically sums up the point.
Fielding a light mechanized list against an anti-mechanized army when you have other choices is just foolish. Burning through his expensive antitank shots on piles of boyz is the most effective counter, not taking them in the face with costly troop-limiting vehicles that they're designed to destroy.