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Made in ca
Superior Stormvermin




I am writing the following post under the impression that GW's intent is/was clearly that the Storm Banner be a one-use only item and have been playing with it as such so far.

When is the best time to turn on the Storm Banner? Is it ever situational, or, should it always be on your opponent's turn 1? I can see times where it might be better to see if your opponent wants to redeploy his flyer first and then ensure he's shut down on the turn he actually wants to charge.
Ideas?

   
Made in ca
Aspirant Tech-Adept





from what i know the german, itaian army books both say one use only (ive been told all non english books are the same). so its only the english version thats unlimited.
id say turn one or 2 in the opponents round. it really depends on his deployment and how agreessive he is as shooting. or how fast he comes with flyers. Id say use it as early as is feasible.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/13 12:09:25


 
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

Isnt it unlimited though? ( in theory )
After the turn its activated on ,
Roll D6 on both players turn on 4+ it runs out.
( from japanese codex )

Paused
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          ʳʷ   ᵖˡᵃʸ  ᵖᵃᵘˢᵉ  ˢᵗᵒᵖ   ᶠᶠ 
   
Made in ca
Superior Stormvermin




I'm going on the assumption that this is going to be FAQed. If it's not, then it's a moot point.

Avoiding the rules discussion, let's just stay on the idea of when you should use it. Since it affects your shooting too (jezzails are especially hurt by it, since they tend to be effective in the early game), it's worth thinking about. I'm also thinking that it's a great bluff move. If you don't play it turn 1, your opponent might assume you don't have it, and then move his dragon in such a way to set up a turn 2 or 3 charge from long distance. If you turn it on that turn, well, he could be left with a nasty surprise.
   
Made in ca
Aspirant Tech-Adept





agreed, against a so so gunline turn 2 might be a beter option. but remember, its all in how the oppent sets up and reacts that matters. so there isnt a hard fast rule, sometimes right off the bat should be concidered or turn 3 if the opponet is scared and hangs back....
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






Every tournament that I've seen taking place since the Skaven book was released has had a FAQ saying it's one use only.

I wouldn't use it during the first turn. It's much better to use it on turn two or three. Use it so that the big enemy nasty is unable to mobilise to deal with your hard hitters when you advance, and when it re-gains its flight move you're already punched through something in combat. Of course this stuff is highly situatonal and depends on the enemy flyer's ground movement speed too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/13 23:05:37


 
   
Made in ca
Superior Stormvermin




Therion, I understand what you're saying, but I'm unsure of how to apply it. Maybe we need some specific examples to examine.

High Elf dragon build. That list isn't moving toward you on turn 1, or, at least not directly. It's probably sitting back and hammering you with bolt throwers, setting up a flank charge with the lord on dragon. So, in this case, you have a dilemma. If you save the banner for turn 2, you take a turn of shooting from the bolt throwers. Then, turn 2, you're still not in range. Skaven vs. HE shouldn't be able to charge until turn 3. (or, if I was playing the HE, I wouldn't let the Skaven player engage until turn 3). With the dragon's 12 inch march/charge move, it can still reposition fairly easily, assuming it already has a flank due to it's first turn move. I actually think the greatest advantage of dropping the flying ability turn 2 is that you can use redirectors against it.
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






You're thinking it the right way. Against the standard High Elves with archers, bolters and Dragon + counterpunch friends, you might need to save the banner to turn three. The only obvious thing is that using it on turn one is pointless since the Dragon isn't in any hurry to get to you. I always deploy my Dragons and flying Greater Daemons behind some los-blocking terrain as close to the middle of my deployment zone as possible. From there I can see how the battle lines unfold and mobilise myself to whichever flank needs it the most or even the middle.

Basically what I'm saying and what you probably understand is that you need to save the banner for a turn where you have some pressure on your enemy. For example, if you have an incredibly over the top shooty Skaven army and the table has no terrain at all, you are putting lots of pressure on the Dragon and his friends already on turn one. Then you should use it immediately to get the most out of your shooting since its guaranteed that he will come at you full speed in nearly kamikaze mode.

Normally though you're trying to get to melee, and you should use it to prevent an imminent flight move charge or a swoop to the middle of your army for masses of terror checks and breath damage.

Just some ideas. I haven't played with or against the new Stormbanner.
   
Made in us
Snord




NC, USA

Choosing when to use it depends so much also on how your army is set up and what the terrain looks like makes it hard to generalize. My army for example, has alot of PCBs in it, so cheap flying units flying up can really screw me up. Hence, I like to use it early to prevent my frenzied units from being led around. High Elf gunlines (sort of), coupled with a dragon can be different. If he's being very aggressive with his dragon and coming right for me, I like to use it early, like turn 1 or so, to keep it bottled up (especially if he was hiding it behind terrain so my warp lightning cannon couldn't snipe at it). If he keeps it back and wants to shoot across the board at me, I'll wait until I get within half range of them to pop it, as he'll benefit alot more from his BS at short range (Boltthrower at a unit of PCBs at half range with the Stormbanner kicking still needs 6s to hit and 4s to wound - 7s at long range).

Either way - pretty much everyone now is playing it like it's 1 use only - if they don't end up FAQing it, it'll go back to being almost mandatory in a Skaven list and seriously nerf the shooting units that Skaven themselves will bring (as it affects their shooting as well).
   
 
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