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over the weekend i was at a doubles tournament with a friend who played space wolfs and was using Ragnar in it. now we use Ragnars Insane Bravado( get D3 attack instead of 1 for assaulting) specal rule a long with the counter attack ( count as assaulting get 1 for charging) universal special rules because we cont not see ant thing in the rules that said that we can. not but some rule lawyers argued ageist this and said that Ragnar only get the D3 when he charges and not counter attack. i just wont this cleared up before i kill some one with the rule book.

He only gets the +1d3 when he "Launches an Assualt.
When Counter Attacking You Cannot Lanch an Assualt.

aaah but were in the rule book does it say you lunch an assault?

dnecro wrote:aaah but were in the rule book does it say you lunch an assault?

And were in the Rules does it state Space Wolves have Squads?
If taken as Pure RAW, Ragnar can not use his Insane Bravado any time.
Skyclaws and Swift Claws are Immune to Berserk Charge and Headstrong.

This book has to be Interpreted, not Rule Lawyered until a official FAQ comes out.
There are 2 FAQ’s out there in the Dakka Comunity.

you do bring up some good points. but why wold GW make a stupidly worded rule with thay go out og thay way to make sure that blood claws dont get a 2 attacks on the counter attack.

The inhairent Flaw of Secrets. WotC did alot of open testing and there hes been almost no rules like this, most of them were spotted by the comunity quickly and fixed.

Anpu42 wrote:He only gets the +1d3 when he "Launches an Assualt.
When Counter Attacking You Cannot Lanch an Assualt.

I agree, the only hang up I have with this is the COUNTER-ATTACK USR. In it (pg 74 BRB) it says specifically "..all the models in the unit get the +1 assault bonus to their attacks, exactly as if they too had assaulted that turn."

While I think Phil was trying to convey that it only applies to when he physically charges the enemy in his assault phase, the fact that the counter attack rule says "exactly as if they had assaulted" is what changes it for many people, and the fact Phil is yet again not specific enough in his rules writings which can/and often is ambiguous, like he could of put something like "only in his assault phase" or something to be more specific. And I know there is someone out there who will point out that the rule specifically states a (+1 attack) in the rule too, but berserk charge and insane bravado rules say instead of the normal +1 as a caveat.

Anyways, I do think Anpu42 has it right, I just wanted to show a devils advocate side to it, and a side which I can not deny a SW player if he wants to use it, as the rule *can* be read the other way with some RAW to back it up. Just my 2 crappy cents.

*edited for clarity

I don't see what is the issue happens to be:

Blood Claws, pg 25 Codex SW:

"Beserk Charge:......This bonus may not be claimed when launching a counter-attack - even Blood Claws are not that fast"

Ragnar Blackmane, pg 55, Codex SW:

Insane Bravado:.....- he and any unit he joins gain +D3 bonus attacks when they launch an assault instead of the usual +1."

Two completely different rules. One specifically disallows bonus attacks on the counter-attack while the other does not.

Was the OP trying to get +d3 and +1 for counter-attacking or is he saying he was rolling the leadership test for counter-attack and instead of getting +1 he was then rolling Insane Bravado d3 for bonus attacks?

i think counter-attack rule is messed up. here bring another question .someone here argues that they can use furious charge when triger counter-attack.

I also don't see the issue:

Insane Bravado says, "When they launch an assault."

Did they launch an assault? No? Then no, you get the normal +1 for your counter-attack.

I realize that the Counter-Attack USR says "as if they had assault that turn." However, that sounds more like a reference to the +1 mentioned just prior, not to the fact that Counter-Attack is just like an assault.

The USR says, "If the test is successful all models in the unit get +1 to their attacks, exactly as if they too had assaulted that turn." It's merely a reference to the rule. You're putting emphasis on the last part of the sentence, when the emphasis should be on the first part. The sentence isn't referring the fact that you're launching an assault. It's referring to the +1 you get from the USR, just like if you had assaulted.

But, simply put. Did you launch an assault? No? Then you don't get Insane Bravado.