FNP question

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**liao989**

Got 3 questions regarding FNP since I started using FNP models, I just want to make sure clearing up some of the rulings.

1. If a model with 5+ armor save and 5+ invulnerable save got shot by a gun with ap 4, can that model use FNP after failing that 5+ inv save?

2. If a model got 4+ armor save and 3+ cover save got shot by a gun with ap 5, can that model use FNP after failing that 3+ cover save?

3. If a model got 6+ armor save and 5+ inv save took a wound from a regular close combat weapon, can that model use FNP after failing that 5+ inv save?

Thx

**tedurur**

yes yes and yes. FNP works for any wound that an armour save can be taken against inregardless of the actual armour worn by the model using FnP

**Rhy3kk3**

Tedurur is right.

**Lordhat**

FNP is negated by things against which no armour save may be taken, ever. On the matter of ap, this means AP1 and 2 only; if there is a model in the game(not the just the one(s) being shot at the the moment) that can make a normal armour save against the attack, then the target may use FNP if applicable.

**liao989**

Thank you guys.

**anticitizen013**

Re-read his post. There are models in the game with a 3+ and 2+ armour save meaning AP4 and AP3 still allow you to take a FNP save regardless of the armour save of the model in question. Re-read the rule for FNP and that should answer any further questions.

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

Easier said: FnP applies unless the wound is AP1 or 2 or a Power Weapon in Close Combat.

**Gorkamorka**

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Easier said: FnP applies unless the wound is AP1 or 2 or a Power Weapon in Close Combat.

Or applies instant death, or is a wound that ignores armor like from a dangerous terrain test or a ranged rending weapon... You didn't really cover the bases there.

Basically, rereading the FnP rule once you understand the implications of 'against which no armor save may ever be taken' should make it pretty clear.
And note that invulnerable or cover saves have no effect on FnPs availability as well.

**nosferatu1001**

Ranged rending weapons are AP2 now

**Sanctjud**

And note that invulnerable or cover saves have no effect on FnPs availability as well.

True, because it's not a 'save' as some describe it. A minor but important difference as to why it 'works.'

**Volkov**

Allow me to muddy the water, a strength 6 vibro-cannon with ap '-' fired against a guardsmen with FNP would not allow the guardsmen to take that save because it inflicts instant death. So FNP does not work against an attack that allows no save OR will inflict instant death

**Tri**

Volkov wrote:Allow me to muddy the water, a strength 6 vibro-cannon with ap '-' fired against a guardsmen with FNP would not allow the guardsmen to take that save because it inflicts instant death. So FNP does not work against an attack that allows no save OR will inflict instant death

FNP works as long as the weapon doesn't cause instant death or can never allow armour saves.

In this case instant death stops FnP from working

**Gold tooth Jerry**

On low armor save unit its great to have FNP, but for a high armor save unit FNP is almost useless.

I.E. Ork boys with mad dok to get FNP are great as they have 6+ save, but get a 4+ after it, however a Sash'O with iridium armor and stim injector has a 2+ save and FNP. This is almost useless as you do not get a FNP save for weapons that are AP 2 or AP1. They only benefit is rerolling 1s when you fail a armor save. Sure cuts in half your failed ones, but is a waist of points in the grand scheme of things as you have a 16 percent chance to roll that 1, and of that 16 percent you have a 50 percent chance of saving it. Also, most opponents will simply shoot you with a ap2 weapon to insta kill you. IF it hits and wounds and double your toughness you just lost your expensive model with no FNP or armor save.

**Sanctjud**

Yea... but you will see no one complain getting 2+ armor and FNP for free...

Crosses fingers for Cult Nurglators...

W/ storm shields for the lols.

**Gold tooth Jerry**

I think if a unit has a invul you should be able to take a fnp, but it might make it too broken.

**nosferatu1001**

Invulnerable saves can be taken with FNP, assuming the conditions for FNP are still met. FNP doesnt care if you have an armour, cover or invulnerable.

Otherwise plaguebearers would be a little stuffed...

**VoxDei**

I'm curious about an AP 4 rending weapon that rolls a 6. The rule says it doesn't apply to AP 1 or AP 2 weapons...now the weapon is an AP 4 and just the shot is an AP 2 so i'm leaning toward allows FNP roll.

**zatchmo**

@VoxDei

I believe it specifically states in the FNP rule that rending weapons that score a 6 disallow a FNP.

**Duce**

nosferatu1001 wrote:Invulnerable saves can be taken with FNP, assuming the conditions for FNP are still met. FNP doesnt care if you have an armour, cover or invulnerable.

Otherwise plaguebearers would be a little stuffed...

I thought it was only armour saves which feel no pain is allowed to follow, not invunerable ones.

**nosferatu1001**

Duce - nope, please find a rule that states that.

FNP is made *after other saves* - whether that is cover, armour or invulnerable, it never specifies if may only be taken after armour saves.

**Bookwrack**

VoxDei wrote:I'm curious about an AP 4 rending weapon that rolls a 6. The rule says it doesn't apply to AP 1 or AP 2 weapons...now the weapon is an AP 4 and just the shot is an AP 2 so i'm leaning toward allows FNP roll.

You forgot the very important other half of that sentence, the one about things against which armor saves can never be taken. You can never take an armor save against a 6 on a rending wound, so no FNP.

**ZacktheChaosChild**

Feel No Pain is alwasy rolled after everything else fails. Think of it as an extra 4+ random save.

**Nurglitch**

Best not to, really. That way madness lies. Holy writ declares that you can't get more than one save, so it's moreso a roll that allows a model to ignore an unsaved wound...

/sarc

**Duce**

nosferatu1001 wrote:Duce - nope, please find a rule that states that.

FNP is made *after other saves* - whether that is cover, armour or invulnerable, it never specifies if may only be taken after armour saves.

So to clarify,

A biker command squad with storm shields can feel no pain a failed Storm shield roll if hit by a plasmagun or from a power weapon in CC?

**BlueDagger**

No because it's from a weapon that "never allows armor saves to be taken" or AP2

**Sanctjud**

THe best example would be:

Dust Bucket Inferno Bolts are bolters with AP3.
Hitting a biker command squad with storm shields.

If they fail a storm shield save, they get their FNP.
___________________

Don't think about it too hard.
FNP is not a save. It's special rule that has a limited number of restrictions...and ONLY those restrictions.

AP2 = no.
Power weapon equivalents = no.
Instant Death weapons = no.
Anything that NEVER allows aremor saves = no.

In general those are the things to look out for.

**Nurglitch**

The Wind of Chaos, for example, is a hilarious weapon to use on Plague Marines.

**lixulana**

ok read the rulebook please.

"if a model suffers an unsaved wound",

the way you fail the wound doesnt matter, armor, inv, cover, something else.

it then specifies that it can not be used against :
weapons that inflict instant death (note ap/str/type dont matter)
Ap1/2 weapons
any weapon that an armor save can not be taken then it specifies a list. an AP3 weapon vs marine is not "no save can be taken"

**Nurglitch**

lixulana:

Actually the strength of a weapon does matter because weapons whose S >= 2xT of the target do cause Instant Death.

**Sanctjud**

@Nurglitch:

It's hilarious because I don't bunch up my Plague marines.

More funny in that if they take Wind, that means one less Lash + Plasma Cannon. Woop Woop!