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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34434831/ns/business-autos

I think I'll put in for a no payback loan. It seems to be a pretty good deal.

gak storm watch is in effect.

This thread can go downhill, really fast.

Normally a political nazi (ok, not that drastic), I shall opt out of commenting other than what I just said.

And that.

And that.

And...

This is good news for GM!

They will either be able to buy the remaining assets cheap or just watch as a competitor is eliminated from the market.

Ah, Chrysler. The worst of America's Big 3 which until recent years have been arguably the worst major country to buy from for cars.

JEEP is worth saving though since thats an icon that still has a following. People will always love Willy aka Jeep Wrangler.

Those that sent $3.7Bn in taxpayer dollars to this enterprise, which was bound to fail, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, or barring that, tarred and feathered in the public square by girl scouts. Everyone on the planet knew this would happen.

GM is next.

Buy American! Buy a Honda! (insert domestically manufactured Toyota or Nissan models here as desired).

So much suffering and waste could have been avoided if the company's management hadn't screwed it up so badly in the first place.

or we had let it fail years ago, like Adam Smith intended.

Frazzled wrote:or we had let it fail years ago, like Adam Smith intended.

Are you trying to imply that a company that isn't producing a product that people want to buy and is mismanaged should fold? I don't know, doesn't everyone have a right to keep theri business around indefinitely?

Ahtman wrote:

Frazzled wrote:or we had let it fail years ago, like Adam Smith intended.

Are you trying to imply that a company that isn't producing a product that people want to buy and is mismanaged should fold? I don't know, doesn't everyone have a right to keep theri business around indefinitely?

Evidently if they make the proper campaign contributions, thats a yes.

The US auto industry and specifically Chrysler has been government bailed out before and for the same reason.

They made gas guzzlers which are fine when the good times roll and everyone wants a gold plated Hummer, but they don't have the range and flexibility to cope with a downturn in the economy which makes consumers want something smaller and more efficient. America needs cars. There is always going to be a buyer if the right kind of vehicle is on sale.

They didn't learn their lesson in the 70s and they are paying the price now. Or rather, Frazzled is paying the price, along with other tax payers.

Its not just that they were gas guzzlers. Thats not the issue. The issue their cars just suck in general. SUCCCCCKKKKKKKKKK....

I drive a Jeep :( I got one of those newer 4 door wranglers, and I love it. it's a shame how companies can frack stuff up so badly.

There really aren't any foreign cars that interest me. I think about the only other thing I'd wanna be seen driving is a chevy avalanche but I'm hesitant to buy american again unless they can get their acts together. Plus I can't afford an Avalanche anyway. My GF would kill me if I bought a foreign car though :(

Kilkrazy wrote:So much suffering and waste could have been avoided if the union thugs hadn't screwed it up so badly in the first place.

There... fixed it for you.

They are no more American than Honda at this point.

I cant fething believe they gave these fethers money...

The lunatics are running the asylum.

Frazzled wrote:Its not just that they were gas guzzlers. Thats not the issue. The issue their cars just suck in general. SUCCCCCKKKKKKKKKK....

I don't know about the quality control or design of American cars.

The flashpoint came on the tail of the 1973 oil crisis and the oil price inflation of the past few years which made people want smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles which GM etc don't make.

Amercian cars are just fine (again I am referencing Hondas, Nissans, and Toyotas made here). Chrysler cars however, are craptacular.

I'm all for fuel efficency, but I gotta drive something big or else I feel like I'm either sitting in the street when I drive, or I'm gonna be squished into nothing if I get in an accident. So it's gotta be a truck/suv or land yacht for me. I've been considering a new car though, but probably not for another year and I'll get a 2011 of something or other.

On the larger topic of car bailouts and the international automotive industry here are some interesting tidbits:

America is far from the only country to have its car company icons receive bailout money. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and I believe Mitsubishi all received bailout cash from Japan in the past 60 years and there's the infamous Layland cars from the UK. A few months ago there was an article about how Nissan might be needing more bailout cash but I haven't followed it since but its surprising since Carlos Ghosn made such a huge turnaround in Nissan's darker years. It seems car companies the world over are having problems staying afloat.

And you know whats screwed up?

1. UAW - For GM IIRC nearly a 1/3 of the cost to produce a single vehicle went to their demands while foreign makes can open factories without such hindrances. Even a person with no business knowledge can tell that the latter would be more successful on that alone.

2. Price of American cars overseas. How is it that a Japanese, Korean, or European car isn't anywhere near as expensive as an American cars in their markets even though the Euro-Asian companies can offer affordable prices here?? American cars are priced astronomically higher except in America but even then the foreign makes can still undercut via Hyundai/KIA . Capitalism is great but when everything is stacked in the favor of foreign competition its going to make a huge impact on sales.

3. Car quality. American cars, until recent years, have been playing a distant fiddle to its foreign competition when it comes to quality and reliability. This is largely because the big 3 gambled that Americans aren't looking for the same kind of interior quality, dependability, etc. as their Euro-Asian counterparts. The Big 3 gambled on focusing on the next point:

4. SUV Craze. Americans love big ass SUV's and trucks and nowhere is this more seen than in Texas. Its a common site to see rolling caricatures of trucks where they're jacked up fifty feet in the air with a pair of balls at the tow hook. The Big 3 focused on SUVs instead of cars and they're paying for it especially in the age of the Toyota Prius.

I don't know about Europe generally but in the UK and Japan most people want a car with the driving seat on the right. Also, we have narrower streets so big cars are less useful. They are hard to park and even to drive around a lot of places. Same same for Japan.

Japan also has some kind of a pollution limit or fuel efficiency limit on vehicles and if your car does not satisfy, an extra import tariff is put on it.

There are no American built cars at the moment which are good enough to avoid the tariff.

Of course if GM started to put out something to rival the Prius or K Jidoshas, you might see the tariff limit moved downwards but until it happens we don't know.

The Japanese car industry has been suffering declining domestic sales for years due to 'kuruma banare' which means carless society. Plenty of Japanese people don't see the point in a car. Public transport is efficient and cheap. If you want a car at the weekend to drive to the beach or something, you just hire one.

Does the court have the capability of overturning the documents relating to repayment? Or would the government have a partial stake in whatever company bought chryslers assets? Regardless however, its struck me odd from the beginning that chrysler would have received bail out money. They are neither as large as GM or iconic as ford. They were also in more trouble than both. What does this mean insofar as Fiats plan to buy a stake in chrysler?

It's like the opposite in the US, people feel they need a car.. even in cities that have good public transportation (and there are very few of those). Hell, I know a guy that's got a car for him, a car for his wife, a great big pickup truck he uses "for work" even though he's a policeman and never has to haul anything. Then he's got a big motorcycle, and 2 ATVs for splashing around in the mud. Last I heard he was planning to buy a RV too. Meanwhile, they can barely afford to pay their mortgage because they're paying so much in car payments and insurance. Guess they could always live in the RV if the bank takes the house away...