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KingCracker wrote:Have you actually watched psycho? Its ok...but its pretty dull in my opinion.
How did you think Psycho was dull?
It is the turning point for horror films.
Basically horror films break down into two era's.
Everything before Psycho, and everything after Psycho.
look at the mise-en-scene for Psycho, It is brilliant!
The fact that the old spooky house on the hill, which people think they should be afraid of, overshadows the modern welcoming hotel down below, yet all the action happens at the motel and the house is the safest structure in the frame.
The suspense is done very well, the lighting, and camera angles, are superb as well.
It was really the first Psychological horror film, and it did everything very well.
It was nominated fora an Oscar in the following categories: Best Art Direction-Set Decoration, Black-and-White Best Cinematography, Black-and-White And Alfred Hitchcock was nominated for an Oscar for Best Director.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/06 05:19:19
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
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While he isn't exactly the "villain" per-se, (there really isn't a villain in The Merchant of Venice, in my opinion) the whole, "I will have my pound of flesh" thing is rather gruesome and Al Pacino played the role better than anyone ever has in my opinion.
Say what you want about Psycho, I just dont like the movie, and personally I think its really over rated as a horror movie. I was told for years growing up how awesome a movie it was, and when I watched it, it was rather disappointing.
KingCracker wrote:Say what you want about Psycho, I just dont like the movie, and personally I think its really over rated as a horror movie. I was told for years growing up how awesome a movie it was, and when I watched it, it was rather disappointing.
Matter of taste I suppose, though I do understand your viewpoint KC...I had much the same reaction when I read LOTR...heard how absolutely wonderful it was, but found it utterly dull...different strokes and all.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
The one bad guy who has appeared or been a major player in a lot of movies, the ultimate villain, Satan.
Whether its creating a demon spawn, bringing about the end of the world, or just trying to steal someone's soul, Satan is probably the evilest of all movie villains.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/10/07 13:41:16
halonachos wrote:The one bad guy who has appeared or been a major player in a lot of movies, the ultimate villain, Satan.
Whether its creating a demon spawn, bringing about the end of the world, or just trying to steal someone's soul, Satan is probably the evilest of all movie villains.
But he's still a bad villain. He's never got an interesting backstory, he's never believable. Being the evillest doesn't make him the "best of the bad", it makes him the villain equivalent of superman. Broken and uninteresting in all but the best writers' hands.
The BEST villains are the ones that are fully realized characters with depth and believably (or in the case of chaotic evil villains, believable craziness, see ledger's joker)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/07 13:50:04
Rented Tritium wrote: He's never got an interesting backstory, he's never believable.
Really? fighting the creator of everything(according to legend) for control of everything isn't an interesting backstory?
and lying was always one of his strongest talents. you're not supposed to believe him!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/10/07 16:05:23
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
Rented Tritium wrote: He's never got an interesting backstory, he's never believable.
Really? fighting the creator of everything(according to legend) for control of everything isn't an interesting backstory?
and lying was always one of his strongest talents. you're not supposed to believe him!
Except that his fight is never actually explored. he's used as a generic boogeyman with magic powers. Almost nobody actually writes anything interesting into him besides making him automatically evil with no actual characterization.
And when I say believable, I don't mean it like "do I believe what this character is saying", its "does this character seem real"
Bottom line, satan is almost never written well. He's always a flat unrealized character without any well defined motivations.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/07 16:13:21
Rented Tritium wrote: He's never got an interesting backstory, he's never believable.
Really? fighting the creator of everything(according to legend) for control of everything isn't an interesting backstory?
and lying was always one of his strongest talents. you're not supposed to believe him!
Except that his fight is never actually explored. he's used as a generic boogeyman with magic powers. Almost nobody actually writes anything interesting into him besides making him automatically evil with no actual characterization.
And when I say believable, I don't mean it like "do I believe what this character is saying", its "does this character seem real"
Bottom line, satan is almost never written well. He's always a flat unrealized character without any well defined motivations.
The question is not whether they are real or seem real, the question is who's the best bad guy and that would be Satan. He's OP and evil, an incredibly dangerous combination for an evil villain.
Rented Tritium wrote: He's never got an interesting backstory, he's never believable.
Really? fighting the creator of everything(according to legend) for control of everything isn't an interesting backstory?
and lying was always one of his strongest talents. you're not supposed to believe him!
Except that his fight is never actually explored. he's used as a generic boogeyman with magic powers. Almost nobody actually writes anything interesting into him besides making him automatically evil with no actual characterization.
And when I say believable, I don't mean it like "do I believe what this character is saying", its "does this character seem real"
Bottom line, satan is almost never written well. He's always a flat unrealized character without any well defined motivations.
The question is not whether they are real or seem real, the question is who's the best bad guy and that would be Satan. He's OP and evil, an incredibly dangerous combination for an evil villain.
See, those are the exact things that make him a BAD villain. Power without characterization makes him an awful villain. He might as well be a natural disaster at that point. The devil is a profoundly boring villain.
The best villains are the ones that have layers and motivations. The devil is just derp evil derp.
Being believable or not is ABSOLUTELY a part of what makes the best villains.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That's not to say you can't probably find some specific movie that did satan really well, but I can't think of one.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/10/07 16:27:39
Rented Tritium wrote: He's never got an interesting backstory, he's never believable.
Really? fighting the creator of everything(according to legend) for control of everything isn't an interesting backstory?
and lying was always one of his strongest talents. you're not supposed to believe him!
Except that his fight is never actually explored. he's used as a generic boogeyman with magic powers. Almost nobody actually writes anything interesting into him besides making him automatically evil with no actual characterization.
And when I say believable, I don't mean it like "do I believe what this character is saying", its "does this character seem real"
Bottom line, satan is almost never written well. He's always a flat unrealized character without any well defined motivations.
The question is not whether they are real or seem real, the question is who's the best bad guy and that would be Satan. He's OP and evil, an incredibly dangerous combination for an evil villain.
See, those are the exact things that make him a BAD villain. Power without characterization makes him an awful villain. He might as well be a natural disaster at that point. The devil is a profoundly boring villain.
The best villains are the ones that have layers and motivations. The devil is just derp evil derp.
Being believable or not is ABSOLUTELY a part of what makes the best villains.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That's not to say you can't probably find some specific movie that did satan really well, but I can't think of one.
Really depends on the story itself, in a lot of films/ books,etc..." The Devil" is depicted as a " generic boogeyman" with no real depth, existing only as an "antagonist" for the " good guys" to pit themselves against in an effort to show how " good" they are...
But in some media, Memnoch the Devil springs instantly to mind, " Satan" is shown as quite the dimensional fellow...being much more than just " Dark" to gods "light".
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
Rented Tritium wrote:That's a good example. Memnoch was a great use of the character!
Even then, I still contend that more than 90% of the time, the devil is used ineffectively and is a bad villain.
This means he doesn't count as "best of the bad" to me, but a SPECIFIC version of the devil from a specific work absolutely can count.
Yeah, I can definitely agree with you...in most media not enough time is spent delving into what really makes " Old Scratch" a true antagonist ( or even if he's truly an antagonist to began with)...and he is used simply in a " boogey boogey , I'm here to be evil ..rawr!" capacity....which, with some rare exceptions ( Memnoch, The Exorcist...The original Omen films) comes off a bit...meh.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
alarmingrick wrote:I thought he (satan) was played/portrayed pretty well in Mister Frost.
Also in The Prophecy, albeit way too short.
And how can any of us forget his chilling representation in South Park?!?!
... ...Along with Harvey Keitel's performance in Little Nickey, I find the South Park Satan to be one of my favorites...
...And yeah, The Prophecy depiction was good as well.
He was scary in South Park, evil man of the year in my opinion. But if you want a villain from South Park, I would say Cartman fits.
But he's so versatile is the thing. Sure he can have meh interpretations but as a whole he can be anything and do anything for any reason. Hell, he doesn't even have to be there in person to screw somebody over and in Paradise Lost he's rather... "humanized" and the entire book is from his perspective.
KingCracker wrote:Ill admit, I liked the Devil in Constantine. He just had a style to him. And for some reason, I loved the tar on his feet for some reason
God, i can't believe i forgot that one! great call, KC!
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
KingCracker wrote:Ill admit, I liked the Devil in Constantine. He just had a style to him. And for some reason, I loved the tar on his feet for some reason
God, i can't believe i forgot that one! great call, KC!
I loved how he saved Constantine's life just because Constantine managed to get into heaven.
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