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Well no, it's one character. And furthermore, he plays a role similar to my own Shepherd--which makes him not useful to me.

When the next DLC for Mass Effect 3 comes out, it's quite likely that the price of the DLC will go down(this is usually what happens with BioWare's titles at least) and I know that they'll do a few free code giveaways on their Twitter feed.

ME DLC does not go down in price simply because the next DLC installment comes out.

Also, ME is a series of games about characters. Adding or subtracting any character from the game is a huge deal.

Manchu wrote:I think it's safe to say that publishers aren't stupid at all.

I know many of game developers who STRONGLY disagree with that.

For some reason multi quote didn't get it but your post about how do devs lose money but it is simple.
Devs get some payment upfront. The payment they get upfront is realtive to the new game sales of their last game. The more sales the more money upfront. Then they can get more money from the publisher depending on how well the games does and how well it's recieved(thus why you'll hear story of some devs inflating their metacritic score. Their paychecks depend on it and it's impossible to reason aganist this practice because no publisher will accept your game without part of your payment being tied to review scores.).
Then there gets to be a lower chance of a publisher picking up a developer. Double Fine almost didn't get picked up by Vinvedi for Brutal Legend due to how bad Psychonaut's initial sales were. They had to prove how longer term it was a "sucess" and built a name for them. I'm sure this happened again when trying to find a publisher for their PSN/XBLA games due to Brutal Legend.

Basically everything you do in the game industry(even chance of getting hired on occasion) is tied to how well your last game sold. If your last game sold 100 mil copies. People want you because obviously you know how to make a good game. If it sold 200 copies then what the hell is wrong with you?

Also most devs don't complain about used game market because they're too busy complaining about publishers. Now that more devs are starting to self-publish you see more of them complaining about piracy. Once they start getting disc games you'll see them complain about used sales too.
It's like musicians and piracy. Most musicians don't complain about CD sales since they see it as them not getting money from them. What they don't realise is that if their CD does AMAZING then they get paid more for their next CD. While if their CD bombs they get less. This is why if you read stuff from the lead singer of System of a Down you'll notice he starts complaining about money getting less from the record label when he tells people to pirate his CDs because he gets no money from them. This is also a reason why record labels are now taking more percentage from concerts aswell (since they pay the costs for Venues and their extras)

And they complaints about used sales will be just as valid/invalid as the publishers' current complaints.

Manchu wrote:ME DLC does not go down in price simply because the next DLC installment comes out.

For a short time...it actually does. Xbox Live usually sets their stuff up so that they have a "weekend" devoted to the DLC, where previous DLCs will be available at a reduced price.

Manchu wrote:ME DLC does not go down in price simply because the next DLC installment comes out.

Also, ME is a series of games about characters. Adding or subtracting any character from the game is a huge deal.

This.

Without Javik, I would have lost a lot of story that I felt was important.

I also spent 10 dollars for around 20 minutes of new (See: Uninspired and Copy/pasted from every colony world from ME2) content and a character. That's insane.

biccat wrote:

Ahtman wrote:GS isn't a ponzi scheme, it is just a pawn shop that specializes in video games.

No, it's really not. GameStop is exactly like a used car dealer. They give you a low payment for your used goods and resell them at grossly inflated prices.

Pawn shops are basically a bank that deals in collateralized loans. The reason pawn shops are seen as shady is because they're essentially a lender of last resort, so people who can't get credit elsewhere will give up expensive collateral in order to get secure a loan, and usually won't be able to pay it back (allowing the pawn shop to sell the collateral).

I wonder what the rate of buy back is for a a pawn shop? Almost everything I've seen is people getting loans they never pay off so it is pay out, or just selling it to the pawn shop outright. The number of people that actually get a loan from a pawn shop and pay it back seems to be very small. Even on the TV shows like Pawn Stars all anyone is doing is bringing something in to sell. I wonder what the rate of store credit to cash is for Gamestop? Or do they not do cash for games anymore? I stopped selling games years ago.

Most of those used car places also do credit at high rates as well. Or are we differentiating used car lots from the 'buy here pay here' used car lots? I've known people that went to places like that and they ended up having to pay around $250 a month for 2 years on a car that was worth maybe $2500. None of them end up being perfect analogies I suppose, but they all work.

Either way the connective tissue between all of them is buying something for a very low price and reselling it a much higher price.

Kanluwen wrote:

Manchu wrote:ME DLC does not go down in price simply because the next DLC installment comes out.

For a short time...it actually does. Xbox Live usually sets their stuff up so that they have a "weekend" devoted to the DLC, where previous DLCs will be available at a reduced price.

Which the Developer/publisher has to.

And knowing EA, they won't ever do something like a sale for longer than a day. Hell, Arkham Asylum is still 50 dollars on Origin! And BF3 is 60!

Yeah, Kanluwen is playing with smoke and mirrors here.

Kanluwen is a jerk. I can't believe you guys are making him a Mod!

Ahtman wrote:Most of those used car places also do credit at high rates as well. Or are we differentiating used car lots from the 'buy here pay here' used car lots? I've known people that went to places like that and they ended up having to pay around $250 a month for 2 years on a car that was worth maybe $2500. None of them end up being perfect analogies I suppose, but they all work.

Well, the difference between a "buy here, pay here" and a pawn shop is the nature of the credit. Pawn shops are collateralized loans, used car dealers are purchase money loans. The loan from the car dealer is related to the purchase, the loan from the pawn shop is unrelated, but secured.

Ahtman wrote:Either way the connective tissue between all of them is buying something for a very low price and reselling it a much higher price.

Pawn shops don't have a bad reputation because they buy at a low price and resell at a higher price (that's basically every industry ever), they have a bad reputation because they are easy fences, charge high interest rates, and tend to service poorer communities, leading to the impression that they're "taking advantage" of poor people. But poor people get charged high rates because they're bad credit risks.

If you think the markup for GameStop is outrageous, you should see some of the markup at grocery stores. They buy low and sell at a much higher price.

Chowderhead wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Manchu wrote:ME DLC does not go down in price simply because the next DLC installment comes out.

For a short time...it actually does. Xbox Live usually sets their stuff up so that they have a "weekend" devoted to the DLC, where previous DLCs will be available at a reduced price.

Which the Developer/publisher has to.

And knowing EA, they won't ever do something like a sale for longer than a day. Hell, Arkham Asylum is still 50 dollars on Origin! And BF3 is 60!

Manchu wrote:Yeah, Kanluwen is playing with smoke and mirrors here.

I think you've confused me with Chowderhead. It happens.

Chowderhead is using prices on Origins(a digital distribution system for complete games which is hosted by EA) as an example of DLC being reduced price for a small amount of time on Xbox Live.

He isn't even right though.
Arkham Asylum is $19.99 on Origins, and Arkham City is $49.99. These prices are the exact same as those on Steam.
BF3--while $60--also includes the same content which preorder players were able to get.

I was referring to your earlier objection that people don't pay attention to pre-order bonuses/GameStop limited time trade-in bonuses compared to your point on this page regarding DLC sales that go on for one or two days.

Kanluwen wrote:Arkham Asylum is $19.99 on Origins, and Arkham City is $49.99.

That is so interesting. Because Gamestop sells it new for a lower price than Steam and Origin. And on a disc, no less.

And the 60$ price tag covers the Online pass and a new pistol. That's it. I'm not paying 10 dollars more for a PC game which should be 50 so I can play online. Hell, the Disc for sale at Gamestop new is around 20 bucks less than buying off of Origin, without adding in shipping.

So please. Smoke and mirrors is not my game. I present the facts the way they are. You may try to claim smoke and mirrors, but the proof is in the pudding.

Manchu wrote:I was referring to your earlier objection that people don't pay attention to pre-order bonuses/GameStop limited time trade-in bonuses compared to your point on this page regarding DLC sales that go on for one or two days.

That wasn't my objection to that. My objection to that is that GameStop gets you in there with a "limited time trade-in bonus which will be applied to your account for use!" but then requires you to use it right then.

There's a difference existing between those two situations.
One is a "deal" which the digital delivery service(ex: Steam, Xbox Live, PSN) will tell you about when you look at the category to go download the DLC and makes no secret about it being a "limited time offer".

The other is an attempt to get you into the physical store, to trade-in your gently used games with a promise of credit applied to your account with said store for usage. The fine print, however, is that it will only be able to be used THAT DAY.

I don't think they are taking advantage of people, and I don't think I said they were. High markup isn't unusual, I mean, this is a GW board after all, I would think we would be used to it!

I didn't say pawn shops had a bad reputation*, just that they have an air of desperation that clings to them, much like Gamestop or used car sales. Any place where people are selling things/trading things has it. Some people know how to work it, but much of the time it is driven by impatience or ignorance, which is not the used car dealer, GS, or the Pawn Shops fault. No one is being forced into any of those situations or to trade/sell their items.

The payment structure is different between the different stores (collateral loan, money loan), but the end result is the same for each of them.





*At least I don't think I said 'bad reputation'. It was late and I may recalled incorrectly what I stated. I would go back but, man, not on a Friday. To much work.

Kanluwen wrote:

Manchu wrote:I was referring to your earlier objection that people don't pay attention to pre-order bonuses/GameStop limited time trade-in bonuses compared to your point on this page regarding DLC sales that go on for one or two days.

That wasn't my objection to that. My objection to that is that GameStop gets you in there with a "limited time trade-in bonus which will be applied to your account for use!" but then requires you to use it right then.

There's a difference existing between those two situations.
One is a "deal" which the digital delivery service(ex: Steam, Xbox Live, PSN) will tell you about when you look at the category to go download the DLC and makes no secret about it being a "limited time offer".

The other is an attempt to get you into the physical store, to trade-in your gently used games with a promise of credit applied to your account with said store for usage. The fine print, however, is that it will only be able to be used THAT DAY.

And your point is?

Most people only trade in games when they want to buy something that day.

Chowderhead wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Arkham Asylum is $19.99 on Origins, and Arkham City is $49.99.

That is so interesting. Because Gamestop sells it new for a lower price than Steam and Origin. And on a disc, no less.

What is "it"? Be specific. Is "it" Arkham Asylum or Arkham City?
Or are you talking about BF3?

And the 60$ price tag covers the Online pass and a new pistol. That's it. I'm not paying 10 dollars more for a PC game which should be 50 so I can play online. Hell, the Disc for sale at Gamestop new is around 20 bucks less than buying off of Origin, without adding in shipping.

Gamestop's downloadable version of BF3 is $59.99--same price as Origins.
Gamestop's PC copy of BF3, new, is $59.99--same price as buying it from EA directly.

You were saying?

So please. Smoke and mirrors is not my game. I present the facts the way they are. You may try to claim smoke and mirrors, but the proof is in the pudding.

What proof? You've presented no evidence, you've made claims--which were flatout incorrect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chowderhead wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Manchu wrote:I was referring to your earlier objection that people don't pay attention to pre-order bonuses/GameStop limited time trade-in bonuses compared to your point on this page regarding DLC sales that go on for one or two days.

That wasn't my objection to that. My objection to that is that GameStop gets you in there with a "limited time trade-in bonus which will be applied to your account for use!" but then requires you to use it right then.

There's a difference existing between those two situations.
One is a "deal" which the digital delivery service(ex: Steam, Xbox Live, PSN) will tell you about when you look at the category to go download the DLC and makes no secret about it being a "limited time offer".

The other is an attempt to get you into the physical store, to trade-in your gently used games with a promise of credit applied to your account with said store for usage. The fine print, however, is that it will only be able to be used THAT DAY.

And your point is?

Most people only trade in games when they want to buy something that day.

As Manchu keeps saying:
Irrelevant. It's a dishonest business practice, reliant upon the "fine print" to cover their backsides.

Kanluwen wrote:[a point about not being able to use trade-in value on pre-orders until release? maybe?]

If I understand what you mean (big IF) then I still don't see a problem -- except that you think it's bad to be stupid at GS but okay to be stupid when browsing XBL or PSN.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:As Manchu keeps saying: Irrelevant.

That's actually me quoting Melissia.

Manchu wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:[a point about not being able to use trade-in value on pre-orders until release? maybe?]

If I understand what you mean (big IF) then I still don't see a problem -- except that you think it's bad to be stupid at GS but okay to be stupid when browsing XBL or PSN.

I think it's unacceptable to be stupid anywhere actually, but that's beside the point.

I explained why I think it's bad in that big part with all the funny named games. The way they execute these "Special Trade-in Days" is to grab the most money they can by encouraging trade-ins of the "most popular" games which they can still reliably sell.

Kanluwen wrote:As Manchu keeps saying: Irrelevant.

That's actually me quoting Melissia.

Well then I was quoting Mel. Props gotta be given.

Ahtman wrote:I didn't say pawn shops had a bad reputation*, just that they have an air of desperation that clings to them, much like Gamestop or used car sales.

Honestly, I've never gotten that feeling going into a GameStop. Then again, I don't sell used games.

Video games, however, are a luxury good. People don't need them in the same way people often need money from a pawn shop (pay rent, buy groceries, etc.), so maybe it's just a personal perception. Usually, you see young kids selling games at GameStop, while used car dealers and pawn shops cater to a wholly different market.

Ahtman wrote:The payment structure is different between the different stores (collateral loan, money loan), but the end result is the same for each of them.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. But they really are very different vehicles.

Kanluwen wrote:[And the 60$ price tag covers the Online pass and a new pistol. That's it. I'm not paying 10 dollars more for a PC game which should be 50 so I can play online. Hell, the Disc for sale at Gamestop new is around 20 bucks less than buying off of Origin, without adding in shipping.

Gamestop's downloadable version of BF3 is $59.99--same price as Origins.
Gamestop's PC copy of BF3, new, is $59.99--same price as buying it from EA directly.

If I have one problem with GameStop is trying to sell open games as new. If I am paying for a new game it better be sealed and still have the factory air still trapped inside. I don't care if they put the disk in a holder and say no one has played it, it shouldn't be open. Protip: having known some employees, they do play them*. The other problem then is that if you change your mind you can't take it back becuase it has been opened, even though you didn't open it.

They need to stop putting new games out on the shelves, and put cards that show what new games they have, or some other way, but selling open games as new is bad.


*It isn't store policy or encouraged, just bad employees, and sometime managers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

biccat wrote:

Ahtman wrote:The payment structure is different between the different stores (collateral loan, money loan), but the end result is the same for each of them.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. But they really are very different vehicles.

But I think we can agree that none of them are ponzi schemes.

Chowderhead wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:And the 60$ price tag covers the Online pass and a new pistol. That's it. I'm not paying 10 dollars more for a PC game which should be 50 so I can play online. Hell, the Disc for sale at Gamestop new is around 20 bucks less than buying off of Origin, without adding in shipping.

Gamestop's downloadable version of BF3 is $59.99--same price as Origins.
Gamestop's PC copy of BF3, new, is $59.99--same price as buying it from EA directly.

I forgot a part of my post. I meant to say Xbox disc that can be purchased at Gamestop. Which is less than the Origin price.

Kanluwen wrote:Back to Karkand DLC to be able to make the most of playing BF3.

You don't have to get it to enjoy BF3. This is opinion, not fact. The only reason I got BtK is because you and the rest of the idiots on XBL had it, and I didn't want to be booted from games!

And anyway, I'm going from memory as Gamestop is blocked at my school. So yes, you might be right. Hell, you are probably right, and I've made an ass out of myself. But still, I feel that I have made some valid arguments farther back in the thread.

But whatever.

I got a physical copy of BF3 off Origin the week of Black Friday for $29.99 and that included S&H.

Ahtman wrote:

biccat wrote:

Ahtman wrote:The payment structure is different between the different stores (collateral loan, money loan), but the end result is the same for each of them.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. But they really are very different vehicles.

But I think we can agree that none of them are ponzi schemes.

Well, yeah. But nobody seriously argues that GameStop is a Ponzi scheme. At least, nobody who knows what a Ponzi scheme is.

I also hate that they sell open games as new. They did this to me when I went to get 40k: Squad Command. I did not go back for a year or so.

biccat wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

biccat wrote:

Ahtman wrote:The payment structure is different between the different stores (collateral loan, money loan), but the end result is the same for each of them.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. But they really are very different vehicles.

But I think we can agree that none of them are ponzi schemes.

Well, yeah. But nobody seriously argues that GameStop is a Ponzi scheme. At least, nobody who knows what a Ponzi scheme is.

Stop bringing logic into this thread, biccat. You're ruining it!

Gamestop is as bad as Ponzi was; bilking people for bajillions of dollars!

Irony meter exploded.