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Slaanesh:

Much as I love Slaanesh, I just can't make myself like that chariot as a whole. I like most of the parts: the daemonettes, herald, seekers, and whips, for instance. I like the rotto-tiller parts too. But together its just meh... The exalted version is even worse by being even more spread out and bulky. It doesn't look sleek, fast, elegant or graceful. Fortunately, I already have four converted chariots already. I'll still buy one though, I can always attach the 'death-roller' and chariot bits to a Slaaneshi Predator or something.

Nurgle:

I like the Plague bearers and the nurglings. With some dipping, heavy washes and a bit of water effects they'll be perfect. I'm so weak I'll probably start a Nurgle army when the new Chaos codex drops.

Tzeentch:

I really like the look of these guys. Even the Blue Scribes delivered characterful models. Their rules are also...not bad.

So did they change any of the rules w/ respect to the Nurgle model line. Are plague bearers cheaper, did they give nurglings powerweapon or somesuch? Are beasts of nurgle worthwhile now? Just curious.

Kanluwen wrote:The new Plaguebearers look great, as do the Nurglings.

Yes, superb miniatures right there!

sennacherib wrote:So did they change any of the rules w/ respect to the Nurgle model line. Are plague bearers cheaper, did they give nurglings powerweapon or somesuch? Are beasts of nurgle worthwhile now? Just curious.

As far as I know, no nurgle models were changed points or stat-wise. The only ones I know that got changed from their existing forms were flamers and screamers.

sennacherib wrote:So did they change any of the rules w/ respect to the Nurgle model line. Are plague bearers cheaper, did they give nurglings powerweapon or somesuch? Are beasts of nurgle worthwhile now? Just curious.

Sorry to say but no changes on the nurgle front except for the new models, only Tzeentch and Slaanesh got new rules.

I just got the WD too, I have one question though... Did flamers and screamers loose their invulnerable save? There isn't a given armour save stat in the update, and nowhere do I see anything about how all daemons' armour saves are invulnerable (like the note in the codex). Should I assume they still have the 4++ like the stat line in the codex?

greg0985 wrote:I just got the WD too, I have one question though... Did flamers and screamers loose their invulnerable save? There isn't a given armour save stat in the update, and nowhere do I see anything about how all daemons' armour saves are invulnerable (like the note in the codex). Should I assume they still have the 4++ like the stat line in the codex?

They "lost" their save, but gained the daemon special rule, which gives them a 5+ invul.

Swara wrote:

greg0985 wrote:I just got the WD too, I have one question though... Did flamers and screamers loose their invulnerable save? There isn't a given armour save stat in the update, and nowhere do I see anything about how all daemons' armour saves are invulnerable (like the note in the codex). Should I assume they still have the 4++ like the stat line in the codex?

They "lost" their save, but gained the daemon special rule, which gives them a 5+ invul.

Yeah, but in the daemons codex, they already had the daemon special rule, and like I said a second ago, a 4++ invulnerable save.

Also, the Daemon special rules doesn't give a 5++ to a model with it, it simply makes the listed armour save an invulnerable save. Sine none of the update models have a save listed, I can only assume they either lost the save altogether (massive nerf) or GW simply forgot to list the saves.

greg0985 wrote:

Swara wrote:

greg0985 wrote:I just got the WD too, I have one question though... Did flamers and screamers loose their invulnerable save? There isn't a given armour save stat in the update, and nowhere do I see anything about how all daemons' armour saves are invulnerable (like the note in the codex). Should I assume they still have the 4++ like the stat line in the codex?

They "lost" their save, but gained the daemon special rule, which gives them a 5+ invul.

Yeah, but in the daemons codex, they already had the daemon special rule, and like I said a second ago, a 4++ invulnerable save.

Bassicly you just lost the ++4, for a ++5. But got extra wounds instead. The new rules replace the old ones, you don't get to pick and choose the best parts from the two.

Needless to say the new rules for the screamer's jaws, and muti-wounds make screamers one of the best anti-Termy units in the game. Heck even pallidens are going to think twice before getting into CC with that unit!

Also strangely the Pink Horrors keep their ++4sv after this is all said and done.

So then stuff like the Greater Unclean one got the nerf. They went from a 4++ to a 5+.

Not sure how i feel about that. A demon like the GUO should get a pretty good save if you ask me for as many points as they cost.

Greater Daemons kept their 4++

To clarify for everyone:

Other than screamers and flamers, everything that is currently in the daemon book keeps the save it was listed with. Only screamers and flamers saves have changed.

Interestingly, if the "Daemon" rule in their profile refers to the Daemon rule in the rulebook - they would have lost Eternal Warrior as the Rulebook "Daemon" only gives a 5++ and Fear.

However, if the "Deamon" rule refers to the one found in Codex: Chaos Daemons, they have no save as "A model's saving through is invulnerable" which they wouldn't possess.

Games Workshop is really getting great at White Dwarf updates...

Iranna.

And the FAQ tells us to add Fear to the Codex deamon traits instead of saying "replace this section with deamon USR" or something.
I had not thought of EW not beeing in the USR.

I always like new stuff

The plastic screamers mean I can get rid of my metal ones that have tails that fall off and break the pins and GS holding them on too often.

As far as the PM's I'll be sticking with my RT/second edition metals

Aside from looking extremely stupid the chariots impress me as far as what they do.

Regardless I'm super stoked that Chaos as a whole is getting reworked

Just read the latest White Dwarf.

I quote;

'The aspect of Tzeentch's Daemon's that is immediately noticeable in Warhammer 40,000 is that their invulnerable save is better than that of other Daemons of Chaos, making them tough to kill'.

Screamers and Flamers must still be 4++ or this statement doesn't make sense.

dan2026 wrote:Just read the latest White Dwarf.

I quote;

'The aspect of Tzeentch's Daemon's that is immediately noticeable in Warhammer 40,000 is that their invulnerable save is better than that of other Daemons of Chaos, making them tough to kill'.

Screamers and Flamers must still be 4++ or this statement doesn't make sense.

Then the sentence after that says that Warpfire is as strong as a Heavy Bolter... which it is not. The Blue Scribes later in the issue have a 4+ save but none of the codex update stuff has any saves leaving me to think that it's a 5+ from the Daemon USR.

On the subject of Chariots, I don't care if they cost 10 points and give 10d6 Hammer attacks... they are ugly. LOL I'll stick with Princes.

dan2026 wrote:Just read the latest White Dwarf.

...where getting rules wrong is not even an exception, it's more of a rule.

Fayric wrote:And the FAQ tells us to add Fear to the Codex deamon traits instead of saying "replace this section with deamon USR" or something.
I had not thought of EW not beeing in the USR.

Yeah GW are going to have to FAQ the eternal warrior special rule, especially now that screamers have 2 wounds. This is why WD rules are always frond upon leave more loop holes open then closed sometimes.

so did demons loose their Eternal warrior or not. If they did it would make some of their units significantly weaker, like nurglings.

I would think EW from the Invulnerable section of the Daemon special rule in the codex still applies. The FAQ they released appends the Daemonic Assault and Daemonic Rivalry rules which are part of the Daemon rule. But not putting saves on any of the stat lines is just asinine. It's not like putting a 4++ or a 5++ would have used more ink than a dash. And now it forces players to reference 3 books (Update, Codex, and Rulebook) to figure out what applies to their units and has just opened up the debate of what is actually applied.

I had high hopes that the GUO had his stats changed along with the KoS; their profiles were missing from their page on GW, and I thought perhaps that is because they were going to change. Dunno...probably just a page formatting error or something, as nothing changed about them.

In my opinion, the Exalted Seeker Chariot is rather ridiculous in what it can do; VERY cheap for what it can do and that many hull points....? Hm, I never took HS before, but methinks that is about to change.

Those Plaguebearers indeed look better in those pictures. Now I like them.

On the gw site, check the entries for each unit for flames/screamers. They have the 4+ save noted on there.

That's because those are the old stat entries, they also still have 1 wound.

necronid wrote:On the gw site, check the entries for each unit for flames/screamers. They have the 4+ save noted on there.

Those are the old rules. They don't have their 2W on the GW site.

timetowaste85 wrote:

necronid wrote:On the gw site, check the entries for each unit for flames/screamers. They have the 4+ save noted on there.

Those are the old rules. They don't have their 2W on the GW site.

And they list the hellflayer having the fleshshredder special rule though it dosnt in the listing page....a faq will be needed at some point.

ceorron wrote:

Fayric wrote:And the FAQ tells us to add Fear to the Codex deamon traits instead of saying "replace this section with deamon USR" or something.
I had not thought of EW not beeing in the USR.

Yeah GW are going to have to FAQ the eternal warrior special rule, especially now that screamers have 2 wounds. This is why WD rules are always frond upon leave more loop holes open then closed sometimes.

What? No. It's bad enough that when the Daemons deep strike they just sit on their hands for a turn to get shot at, usually out in the open. It's bad enough that their deployment is random. Don't take away the Eternal Warrior that ALL Daemons get. It's the only thing that keeps certain things playable! It's a point of survivability, especially when all saves are 5+. Please don't suggest that one of the only points of survivability Daemons have been changed or removed.

The metal plaguebearers were soooo much better... glad I bought some lately and hopefuly some cheap auction of them will show up.

Might be the usual crappy GW paintjob but doubt it, the metal ones looked really sick while the plastics look like a soccer team with those healthy straight postures. Happy necrons, happy nurgle, what now, happy tyranids?

Chariot is better though, still has issues but nothing like nurgle line.

Actually, after painting the new PBs--they are really great kits. Lots of options, good posing--and man they take to my scenic bases a hell of a lot easier .